Confessions of an Economic Hitman, The Hillary Raimo Show Transcripts

(originally recorded 2010 The Hillary Raimo Show on Achieve Radio)

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Hillary Raimo:  My Guest tonight, John Perkins first book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man was a ground breaking story about corporate greed in America. It’s destructive global influence on developing third world countries and the role he, himself played in that destruction. The book spent nearly a year on the New York Times Bestseller List and went on to become one of the most critically acclaimed nonfiction books of the year.

Perkins goes into even more depth in this book, The Secret History of the American Empire. About the machiavellian manipulation of the global economy by what he calls the corporatocracy of America. And what we as responsible citizens can do to help put a stop to it.

In his other book Hoodwinked, he pulls back the curtain on the real cause of the current global financial meltdown. He shows how we’ve been “hoodwinked” by the CEO’s who run the corporatocracy. Those few corporations that control the vast amounts of capital, land and resources around the globe and the politicians they manipulate. Theses corporate fat cats, John explains, have sold us all on what he calls predatory capitalism.

John, welcome.

John Perkins:  Thanks, Hillary. It’s my pleasure to be here.

Hillary Raimo:  Well I have a lot of questions for you tonight. Lets start with what exactly is an economic hit man?

John Perkins: Well Hillary, I think it’s fair to say that we economic hit men have created the worlds first truly global empire. Primarily without the military for the first time in history, with true economics. Although we have many different approaches to doing this, I think the most common one would be to identify countries with resources corporations covet like oil and generate huge loans to that country for the world bank or one of its sister organizations.

Yet the money doesn’t go to the country, it instead goes to our own corporations that build power plants and highways, industrial parks. Big infrastructure projects that, of course bring in a lot of money to those corporations. And help a few wealthy families in those countries. But do not help the majority of the people, who are too poor to benefit from them. And yet those people, the citizens of the country are left holding a debt they can’t possibly repay.

So we go back to the country at some point and say since you can’t repay your debt, sell your oil real cheap to our oil companies or whatever the resource is, without any environmental restrictions, vote with us in the United Nations, allow us to build military base on your land. Really be part of our empire.

And when the few cases when we fail, and I talk in my books about how I failed with the President of Ecuador, Jamie Roldos and the Panamanian President, Omar Torrijos. I wasn’t able to corrupt and I wasn’t able to get them to accept these deals, to play the game. They were both assassinated by people we call jackals. And these are men or women who either are with rogue governments or assassinate their leaders. They step in when, in the few instances when we economic hit men fail.

Hillary Raimo:  So you are saying the big corporations have become so large and have gained so much power that they are able to act like private governments and are going in and exploiting these people?

John Perkins:  Yeah, the big corporations run the government. It’s not the other way around unfortunately. I think, well I don’t know if it’s unfortunate or not, but it’s just the way things are. And that’s changed in my lifetime really. They used to be, when we looked at the world as this globe of roughly 200 countries, a few of those countries have a lot of power, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, the United States. But today we better envision the globe, still roughly 200 countries, but these huge clouds drifting around it. These are the big corporations. And they don’t know any national boundaries or listen to any specific sets of laws. They strike deals with whatever country satisfies them, or whatever one has the resources or markets they’re interested in exploiting. They’re really calling the shots. They own the mainstream media. They own most of the politicians one way or another around the world. They really are the new power.

We are at a time in history, Hillary that kind of like when, the city states became nations. Except this time the nations are becoming irreverent, it’s the big corporations that are ruling.

Hillary Raimo:  John, how did you get involved in this kind of work?

John Perkins:  Well, I was recruited by the National Security Agency when I was still in business school in Boston in the late 60’s. Went through a whole series of tests, personality tests, lie director tests. And they identified me as a guy that would make a good economic hit man. I was a good con man they thought. And with credentials, from a [inaudible 00:05:32] kind of business school. And they also identified several weaknesses that would make it easy to hook me. And I talk in detail in the books about these, but I think I can summarize them by saying I think it’s the three big things of our culture, sex, power, and money. I was a very young man, I was infected with all of those charges. I wanted sex, and I wanted power, I wanted money. And they offered, and they still offered all of them.

Hillary Raimo: They seduce you in, set you up by exploiting what they consider weaknesses. Do they actively search out people in schools? How do they find people like you to do these jobs? Are they always watching?

John Perkins:  Well, I can’t really answer that question cause I don’t know what their policy is. But in my particular case, I was married to a woman whose father was very high up in the Navy department. I was trying to avoid Vietnam, and this was back in the late 60’s. My father-in-law’s best friend was very high up in the National Security Agency, which had a potential for being drafted preferable. So he arranged for me to go in for interviews. And once I’m in there, I’m going through the lie detector tests and the personality tests and at that point they identified me as being ideal for this kind of a job. That something else they might have identified as being the perfect guy to be spotted behind the scenes in North Korea, I don’t know. But for me, this is a personality that they saw in me.

Hillary Raimo:  So some people would say, this is a conspiracy. You hear the word illuminati all over the internet. What are your thoughts on that?

John Perkins:  I have no proof of that at all. And no reason to believe that. I don’t suppose I have any real reason not to believe it. I certainly never been at those levels or seen anything like that. What I see instead is a fairly small group of corporate executives that I call the corporatocracy. Men primarily and a few women who run our biggest multinational corporations. All being driven by one goal, one common goal, and that is to maximize profits, regardless of the social and environmental costs. Simply put, maximize profits.

And they don’t have to get together and conspire to do anything illegal, a lot of them don’t even know each other. But they’re all headed for that same goal. So while you may have Exxon and Chevron, they’re competing for your dollar at the gas pump, the fact of the matter is, when it comes to new regulations for example, new regulations are going to be imposed as a result of the terrible accident in the gulf. The powers are all going to come together and fight as one family in Congress. Not to have water restrictions or at to least minimize that.

And you’ll say the same thing about Nike or Reebok and Adidas and those companies. When push comes to shove, they come together. Then they compete in the market. This doesn’t imply that there is a conspiracy but there certainly is the common shared goal. And they all recognize that and fight very hard to preserve that goal.

And in addition to maximizing profits regardless of social and environmental costs, the other part of that is something Milton Freedmen, what I call predatory capitalism, fought very hard for. And that is to cost or reduce regulations. Businesses don’t want to be regulated. So they all fight hard not to be regulated.

Hillary Raimo:  To maximize their profits.

John Perkins:  Maximize profits and avoid regulation and privatize everything. Convince the government that private business should run basically everything, including the military in Afghanistan.

Hillary Raimo:  In your opinion what is going on in the gulf right now? Is this just a matter of total lack of respect for the environment and about maximizing profits? is it just that cut and dry?

John Perkins:  Well it tells you the power of oil companies. And you have to remember that the oil companies are by no means alone, the banking industry, the insurance industry, the health industry, and the engineering industry, all the [inaudible 00:09:59] industry that revolve around all those that I just named. Are all highly dependent on oil. And they step to the plate to defend oil. And they realize how important oil is to them. Not to mention the transportation sector or the utility sector. So many sectors are dependent on oil. So you can see right here the power base that a company like BP has and all the oil companies.

And I think it’s important for us to understand that this well, that this leak that’s going on right now could conceivably never be stopped. I don’t think that’s likely but we have to face the possibility that such a catastrophe could happen. It could destroy the oceans. It could destroy life as we know it on earth. It’s one well. It’s a possibility. So while we are all worried about Iran having nuclear weapons and what’s North Korea is doing, etc, etc.

We ought to be a lot more concerned about what these big corporations are doing and it’s an accident theoretically. But obviously some very poor decisions were made that were all based on greed. Or based on the idea of maximizing profits. And we really, really need to look at that and the danger to our planet.

I think the other thing we should be looking at, Hillary, is understanding that actually Texaco, which is now owned by Chevron, has a worse catastrophe in the Ecuadorian Amazon. The last I heard the amount of toxin waste that was spilled in the Amazon by Texaco were roughly 3 times more than what’s got into the gulf so far. That changes everyday, so I’m not sure what the number is today. But that was intentional, Texaco did this as a matter of policy. It wasn’t an accident. In the largest environmental lawsuit in the history of the world now was filed against Texaco on behalf of 30,000….

Hillary Raimo:  How did they do it on purpose John? Can you explain that? Why would they do that on purpose?

John Perkins:  Well it’s deep in the Amazon and when a drill is drilled for oil they have a lot of oil that comes up that they never use. That they flare off, that they spill off. Under most regulations they have to take care of that and somehow they have to manage it. But in those days in the Ecuadorian Amazon they get away without managing at all. They just dumped it into huge pools. So now you’ve got huge lakes out there. I’ve seen these that are just toxic waste oil and other toxic waste from oil producing. And at the time Ecuador was run by dictators, military dictatorship that was put into power by the CIA. And allowed Texaco to get away with this.

It was not a democratic elected government, it was a US puppet government. I was there. It was in the late 60’s and the 70’s I was there first as a peace corp volunteer and then as an economic hit man at the time. And the current president of Ecuador is extremely incensed over this. And there’s no question that Exxon, no Texaco, excuse me, needs to pay up. The fact of the matter is people are still buying because Texaco is hard balling us and refusing to settle this case and refusing to take responsibility. And it’s Texaco, and as I’ve said before, it’s now owned by Chevron. So it’s really Chevron these days. It’s a terrible catastrophe. And the executives at Chevron are doing nothing today to resolve this problem.

And yet we don’t even hear about them in the United States. And that’s probably my point, Hillary. That these things go on all the time in Africa, in Indonesia, in Latin America, all over the world that we don’t even pay attention to. We just say, well, okay what the heck. Just keep pumping oil and give it to me cheep.

So I hate to say this, and I want to be very careful that I don’t get misunderstood. If there has to be such a terrible oil spill. I’m sorry there is. But if there has to be I think the world is blessed that it happened off the shores of the United States. Because we are the largest consumer of oil in the world. We are the most powerful and wealthiest nation in the world. And now we are understanding the implications of things that have been happening on many different scales throughout the rest of the world, the third world for years and years and years and we haven’t even noticed.

Hillary Raimo:  Very sad. Do you think this will wake people up?

John Perkins:  Yes, I think that should be a very strong positive benefit that comes out of this. I fear, however is that the oil companies and many other powerful interests, many politicians will tell us that all we need to do is ban off shore drilling in the United States. And that would be a terrible mistake because if we don’t cut back demand for oil that means that we’ll just take the same disaster some place else. We’ll go back deep into the Amazon, we’ll go into the deadest of the Middle East, we’ll go into the jungles of Indonesia.

And that’s not a solution. So we have to be very careful, I think, that we don’t just say, well the solution is no more off shore drilling in the gulf or any place in the United States. We have to truly understand this as being a message that there’s a virus around the world. I call it the mutant viral form of predatory capitalism. And very much symbolized by this oil spill, is spreading throughout the gulf and could spread throughout the oceans of the world. There is this spreading viral capitalism that is very, very destructive and is a failed system really. And it’s a system in essence threatening to truly destroy our planet whether it’s oil or something else.

You know we had the disaster in Nepal in India back a number of years ago. We’ve had many of these sorts of things around the world. It’s time we really woke up and said, you know we’ve got to change our consciousness. We’ve got to take as our first priority creating a just and peaceful world for every child on this planet.

Hillary Raimo:  These companies have become so gigantic, they have so much power and so much influence in the current system. How does an average person change anything?

John Perkins:  Well I think, Hillary, we have a lot more power than we realize. And my most recent book, Hoodwinked, is the devoted to addressing that. What can we do? What can you do? What can all of your listeners do? And obviously I can’t cover the whole book in this radio program. So I suggest people read the book if they’re really interested.

But to summarize it. There’s five different areas and perhaps the most important one is that we as consumers have a great deal of power. These big corporations exist only because we support them one way or another. We buy their goods and services or our tax dollars do. Now this is a global empire, but it’s the first one in history that hasn’t been created by the military. Nobody is forced to buy from Nike, or from Exxon, or from BP. Nobody is forced to buy any of these things. And if we recognize the market place is democratic and that every time we buy something or choose not to, we’re casting a vote. And if we express our opinions to the bias…

Let me give you an example. If everyone of your listeners when we get off this program, goes to their computer and sends an email to Nike and says I’m not buying anymore Nike products because I know you still have sweat shops and slave labor in Indonesia. I’m not going to buy any of those products until you pay those people fair wages and give them decent working conditions. I’m not asking for you to get out of Indonesia and turn those people out of jobs. I’m asking you to give them fair wages and give them decent living conditions and health insurance. If we all did this, Nike would have to come around.

We have that power. We got rid of apartheid in South Africa by boycotting businesses that supported it. We got companies to clean up terribly polluted rivers all over the United States back in the 70’s. More Recently we got them to get rid of trans fats in foods and very recently antibiotics in chickens. But now we need to ratchet this up a notch and say, we’re not going to buy from any company that is not committed to creating a sustainable just and peaceful world. That’s got to be the commitment. In order to be perfect at it, that has to be their commitment. I’m only going to buy from companies like that and I have made that commitment we can do that. And send them emails. Let them know because they do read those. Somebody reads them, the CEO’s don’t read the emails, but he does get a matrix once a week or so. To tell him what kind of emails are coming in and it matters. It’s important to them.

Hillary Raimo:  We’re going to go to the phone lines. We have a caller on the line from Alberta, Canada. Jay thanks for calling in. You have a question?

Jay:  Yes I do Hillary. Thanks so much. Hey John, I just wondered, regarding the oil in the gulf, when this thing, if they can’t cap this and all these gallons and gallons of oil going to actually be leaking out of there. I just wonder if it’s going to shock the oil futures market because, like the Saudi’s need $55 a barrel over and above what’s going on right now in order to keep their countries sustainable and going. And if they find out that there’s more oil than their creating a shortage for and it goes down and it effects the Saudi’s plus our economy in Alberta too is based on oil. And just wondered what it’s going to do to the American economy too. I just find that there’s more and more stuff than oils going to do even environmental effects in Florida and the pan handle there. It’s going to devastate the economic, you know the fruit and vegetable market and the tourism market. I just wondered what your views on that.

John Perkins:  Well certainly, yes. We don’t know the full impact at this point. And I was involved in a discussion a few days ago, on that point we were talking about peak oil. And this whole idea that there’s this unlimited supply and in a way people were saying on this channel that this endless well is showing us that there is no limit to the supply of oil. There’s a lot of oil there gushing away. That’s one thing that may be coming out of this. And certainly BP stocks have fluctuated a lot since this has happened.

The creditability of the industry is being challenged, but I think we also have to remember that it’s an incredibly powerful industry. It’s so much of the world economy depends on oil one way or another that it’s always been a very resilient industry. But I think we the people must speak out. And we must say, one of the things we must say is we got to get off oil. And there’s no question, it’s a terrible substance to be dealing with. And we sometimes talk about the limited supply, the possibility of a very limited supply of oil, the peak oil idea. To me what’s perhaps more of a concern than whether we run out of oil or not. I wish we would run out of oil in a way.

But the bigger concern is can the carrying system of the planet handle this much carbon dioxide. And I think that’s a more limiting factor than the amount of oil that we have. Whether we can handle the green house effect that comes out of this, so hopefully this terrible catastrophe that going on in the gulf combined with what’s going on in Ecuador and other places will shake us awake to realize we have got to get the oil economy. We simply have to get off, it’s a terrible, terrible addiction. Like any addiction, the only way to get rid of it is essentially go cold turkey.

Jay:  I have another question. Is that okay?

Hillary Raimo:  Absolutely Jay, go ahead.

Jay: Yeah, we have like, in the world, an economic pyramid. That means it’s all interconnected in some way. So if we take out one way of doing things, it’s still there and I’m wondering is that we have no….. Like when you buy a product, okay, let’s say you buy something that’s has plastic wrapping or something like that. There’s no way of doing something useful with that plastic. You can do something with cardboard, but not really with plastic because it’s made of petroleum. And there’s really no reasonable resource to turning that into a reusable product again. And turn it around again and close the loop. We really have no way of going back to a way of making a close loop system. It’s just a one way system.

John Perkins:  That’s exactly why we have to get off oil. I mean, what’s done is done. We can’t go back and get rid of all the plastics and all the other oil residue around the planet, but we can stop creating more. And we need to do that. We really need to make a commitment. Like I said this is an addiction that we have to go cold turkey on.

Hillary Raimo:  Thanks Jay. Great questions. Thanks for calling in tonight. We have another question from John in Vancouver. John asks, is there any governance to the common property of the planet? Tribes in Pakistan took a stand against Coke a Cola and Pepsi over water for beverages contracts made by the government. How can citizens of the world take similar actions?

John Perkins:  Well we’re seeing a lot going on and incidentally in Vancouver, I’m speaking and doing a workshop in Vancouver in late July, The Tipping Point Conference. It’s the 22nd through the 28th of July. I’d love to meet the listener there and other people. You’ve been getting calls from all over, Hillary, this is wonderful. But go to my website, and you can find out where I’m going to be. I’d love to meet some of your listeners. I travel around speaking a lot.

Yeah, this whole thing of international governance, we don’t have any and the UN has proven to be a paper tie area. It pushed hard against the Iraqi war to begin with that totally habilitated. The world bank is in the pocket of the economic hit men and corporatocracy. We need a world governing organization to watch out for these things. And we don’t have it. And the big corporations will resist it. They’ll fight it.

So I would really encourage that the listener who wrote in about this, to go out there and fight for it. The internet gives you a tremendous forum today. We need to push for these things. It needs to come from we the people around the planet. We have to take back our planet. I feel that the United States, our country, has been stolen. Canada also has been stolen. The world has been stolen by these robber barons, by these modern day robber barons.

We must take it back and we the people are going to have to do this. Just as we’ve had to do everything in the past. We’re the ones that had to get rid of apartheid. We’re the ones that had to shout out against racial bias and bias’ against gender in United States, Canada, and around the world. We must do it now. We really need to take back our country. And there is no international body that supervises these things. We’re it. And how we shop does matter. Go after those international companies, arrange boycotts, start letter writing campaigns, email writing campaigns. This is so easy. And we must go after these people, we have to do it.

Hillary Raimo:  Let’s talk about Monsanto. How do we take a stand to a corporation like that?

John Perkins:  Well, you boycott everything that Monsanto produces. Everything that they produce. And Whole Foods, for example, won’t sell any products that have GMO’s in it. I think that’s wonderful. I know a lot of people have a problem with Whole Foods and some of their labor policies. I have a problem with those too. But one thing they are doing right is staying away from GMO’s. And you, as I understand, when you buy things there and many other stores. Let Monsanto know, send them emails and let the stores that you buy from that don’t use GMO’s know.

Europe has had a fantastic success record. You don’t get things with GMO’s in Europe. So you can buy something that’s make by Kellogg’s in the United States that has GMO’s in it and in Europe that same product doesn’t. So they’ve been able to make this happen in Europe. We can make it happen here too. But we have to have the resolve, you know. We the people have to get off our fannies, stop looking at television for long enough to get on the computer and make it happen. And God, it’s so easy today. You know, if you go to my website, there’s a whole link there for starting petitions and there’s hundreds of petitions and you can sign one of… it’s very, very easy. All you have to do is click on it and put your name and address in and then once you’re done continue to stay in and all you have to do is go back when new petitions go up. They are important. We have a great media here now. We’re casting votes constantly. But we all need to take an active role in this.

Hillary Raimo:  Speaking of media, John. President Obama just issued a media black out for the Gulf of Mexico where people can be fined up to $40,000 for getting closer than 65 feet to the boons or anything related, the ships. What do you have to say about that kind of action taken by our government when there should be transparency? Do you think that is a result of BP demanding that, that happens?

John Perkins:  Absolutely, it shows you the power that BP has, that the oil industry in general has. They’re all stepping up behind BP now. You know, any good journalist should get out there and defy those orders and be taken to jail if necessary.

Imagine Walter Cronkite coming back from Vietnam and saying it isn’t how it looks over there. We’re losing that war and shouldn’t be there. Had a huge impact. I think if Walter Cronkite were 40 years old today he’d be down there with a CBS crew going, breaking the law. And we need to have that happen.

It’s terrible, it’s also terrible in the United States, the ban on showing caskets and bodies coming back from Afghanistan or Iraq. The media should not stand for these things. It’s a sign that our mainstream media is totally sold out. They’re either owned by the corporatocracy directly or through advertising budgets. But thank God there are programs like this Hillary. We do have a free press and it’s coming in through programs like this and through streaming, through the internet, through blogging. It’s an amazing thing going on out there. And most of the bloggers and steamers and people doing these kinds of programs like yours don’t have the finances or the staying power to cross those lines and go in and get arrested. You probably wouldn’t get that much attention. We need a few bold journalists out there that are in the limelight. The Walter Cronkite type that will do this. I just hoping one will emerge. I think it’s disgusting that the Obama administration would yield to something like this. Our presidents are not very powerful anymore. And they are very vulnerable.

Hillary Raimo:  I see a lot of anger towards Obama and I try to stress to people that it’s not necessarily him making these decisions, it’s a product of a system. Speaking of Afghanistan, John, I recently found out that they have discovered, a $14 trillion mineral resource deposit that’s in Afghanistan. Now with your background, is the war in Afghanistan really over this?

John Perkins: Certainly, and that’s one of the reasons that we did go in. This may be news to most of us, these mineral deposits. But it’s not news to the corporatocracy. They’ve known all along. They may have not known the value of it, they shouldn’t know the value of it. They’re just throwing numbers around now. But they’ve known it was there for a long time. And they’ve known Afghanistan is in a critical strategic location geographically. The Soviets knew that, that’s why they basically, Afghanistan basically brought down the Soviet Union. But the Soviet’s were determined to win in Afghanistan, that’s why they stayed in so long cause they knew about these minerals. And they knew about the strategic location.

The other thing that I think it’s important for us to understand Hillary, that our economy is very, very based on war. It’s based on oil and war. And the two go together. There’s a movie out that Oliver Stone just released called South of the Border, I think is the name of it. I saw excerpts from it before it was released. It’s about some of the major presidents in South America. And he interviews President Kirchner, the former president of Argentina, who talks about a meeting he had with the second George Bush president. In which Bush said, you know the economy in the United States is based on war, we have to keep going to war.

And that’s true, at this point. That you and I, and all your listeners have to turn this around too. We have to look for a new kind of economy. I wrote extensively about that in Hoodwinked. How we’ve got to come up with an economy that serves the world, rather than serves the war machines. And let’s get all those brilliant minds today who work for General Dynamics and General Motors and General Electric and all the other generals racing on out all the military industries whose supported by our tax dollars. Let’s insist that our tax dollars pay them to instead of making missiles and anti aircraft and so on and so forth. To come up with technologies that will clean up the terribly polluted lands of the world. We’ve polluted the world. We’ve polluted the earth. We’ve polluted the water. We’ve polluted the air, all over.

Let’s devote ourselves to coming up with technologies to clean it up. Let’s devote ourselves, let’s pay Cargo and Kraft and Chiquita and all the other agriculture businesses, Monsanto. That are doing so much damage, to instead come up with ways for the starving people of Africa to produce food more efficiently. To store it at a local level and distribute it locally and efficiently. So they no longer have to starve.

We talk about sustainable energy and that’s very important but there are so many other things we can do too, to create a new economy. And I go over in detail, in Hoodwinked how each of us should be participating on one level or another. Get out of the military economy, get into a new economy that’s earth friendly.

Hillary Raimo:  John, do you think 9/11 was an inside job? Do you think it was something that happened so that we could use it as an excuse to go into Afghanistan to go to war?

John Perkins:  Your bold, aren’t you?

Hillary Raimo:  Well, we only have 18 minutes left so….

John Perkins:  You know Hillary, I have to say I don’t like to talk about things I don’t have personal experience, I have no inside information on 9-11. But what I will say is, I can not believe that a man with a walkie talkie standing in the cave in the Himalayas directed that operation. Nor can I understand why there was a huge hole put in the nations largest fortress, most important fortress, the pentagon. The hole was put there and no senior official lost their job. No general lost his job. That’s amazing. And there’s cameras all over the pentagon. Why has nobody ever produced a photograph of that plane hitting the pentagon? It’s incredibly suspicious. I don’t know who did it, but I don’t believe the official story.

Hillary Raimo:  So now that we have this open ended kind of threat of terrorism going on in the world. Do you think that has given the corporatocracy, the American Empire a green card to go into whatever country they want? For example, what’s going on with Iran right now? Is this an example of how an economic hit man would work because it seems to me that there was a lot of negotiation going on trying to get them to do certain things and now all of a sudden it’s escalating and feels kind of like what you describe in your books? Is that indeed what’s going on?

John Perkins: It is. It’s a huge deception. There is no such thing as terrorism. There are people performing acts of terror around the world. But there’s no global terrorism. I know members of Al-Qaeda, I’ve interviewed them. I’ve interviewed members of Farc in Colombia. I’ve interviewed Somali pirates, they have nothing in common. It’s not a global movement. This is not like Communism, not like Catholicism, it’s not like Protestantism, there’s a lot of ism’s, but terrorism is not an ism. They are acts of terror, yes, but they are not united. There’s no such thing as a war on terror.

And we bought into that somehow. The media has been extremely reluctant to really face the facts. The corporatocracy wants to convenience us that there’s another war, like the war on Communism. But the war on terrorism is not the same thing at all. We simply bought into it, we bought into the fear around it. Most of the terrorists that I’ve interviewed, in fact I say all the one’s that I’ve interviewed, are desperate people. They’re starving. The Somali pirates, fisherman whose fishing waters were destroyed by basically by piracy from European and other foreign fishing vessels. And also US Navy vessels dumping nuclear waste from Diego Garcia Island, where their base is there into fisherman’s waters. For 20 years those fishermen complained to the UN and other international bodies. About the pirating of their seas and they can no longer fish. Their kids are starving. They turned to piracy. Every terrorist I’ve ever interviewed says I don’t want to be a terrorist, it’s a dangerous occupation. I just want to be able to provide a living for my kids.

Now, I’m not saying there aren’t fanatics, there are. There are a lot of fanatics. There are people who are wealthy who are involved in acts of terror. This war on terror is a misnomer. There’s no such thing as global terrorism. There are simply acts of terror. And the best way to deal with them for the most part is to help the economies in the regions where these people are being breed. Most people don’t want to be terrorists. They won’t follow the fanatic leaders unless they’re desperate.

Hillary Raimo:  Is this being used to manipulate the majority of people, to be complacent with the way we have set up our systems?

John Perkins:  Yeah, we’re buying into it, you know. It’s easy for us to believe. We want to believe our country is a good place and that there are bad people out there that are behind all of this. And our economy is collapsing, I don’t have a job because there’s bad people out there, whatever. It’s easy to believe that. It’s seductive and it is a technique of economic hit men. It’s been taken to a very, very large level now. But we the people need to stop buying that. And understand that yes, there are bad people we have to protect ourselves against. There’s always going to be rapists and mass murderers and people with screws loose in their brains, but that’s not saying there’s an international movement of terrorism.

Movements like that, I mean organizations like Al-Qaeda can only exist on a large level because they are desperate people who are extremely angry about what we are doing in the Middle East and what we are doing in Indonesia with oil and exploitation of resources. And what we are doing many other places. You know you can go into Latin America, you can go into Barros very, very poor ghettos. In Caracas and other places in Latin America and see pictures of Osama Bin Ladin as a hero. It’s not because these people are muslims, they’re not.

They’re Catholics, they don’t like Islam, but they see Osama Bin Ladin as a kind of Robin Hood because he’s standing up to what they see as a dangerous empire, the United States. And I think that’s very sad, Hillary. I think we need to come into the world with a new vision.

Like I explained before, develop a new economy that’s going to be aimed at helping starving people around the world. And cleaning up the impoverished planet. Let’s come up with a really good picture that gets rid of terrorism, by getting rid of the root causes of it.

Hillary Raimo:  How would you tell that to a young man growing up in the system like you did, going to school, trying to go forward in the career that may get tempted and seduced with money, power, and sex like you did? Is it just a dysfunctional kind of mechanism in the human being itself or is it just a matter of reaching deeper into people to really get them to understand that concept?

John Perkins: It’s a matter of getting the word out. And I think that’s been the problem. When I was in college for example, in high school and college, nobody was talking the way I am today about the system. There was a huge anti-communist movement. There was a big red scare. My father and mother were stanch conservative republicans who were very, very terrified of communism. I grew up with that. Television programs like, I [inaudible 00:41:11] a bunch of television programs that scared the pants off of us about communists. We grew up with that and there was nobody else speaking like what we are talking right now.

The Vietnam War came along and there was a huge movement against it. I went to Boston University and Howard Zinn, who just recently released a, God Bless Him, a mentor and a very dear friend of mine, he was speaking out and Noam Chomsky and a number of other liberals against the Vietnam War, but at that time it was all oriented toward that one war. Not the bigger issues, and when the war ended we didn’t go and examine the bigger issues. A few people did, Chomsky did, Zinn did to a certain degree. But not very many people were listening. Today I think more people are listening.

And so I’m doing exactly what I think I’m suppose to do, which is I go around and speak at a lot of college campuses, a lot of MBA programs. I speak at business conferences. I want people to get this word. And there’s a lot of others out there, there’s a lot of good books, there’s a lot of good movies that have come out, The Constant Gardner, Blood Diamond, Hotel Rwanda, The Al Gore movie on the environment. Many movies that are now opening peoples minds.

Hillary Raimo: How does global warming play into all of this?

John Perkins: Well global warming is a fact, I think. I’ve seen the glaciers melting terribly and in the Himalayas and in the Andes. And also in the United States and Canada. So it’s happening, there’s no question that global warming is happening. And whether we humans caused it or not, who needs to argue that point. I happen to think we are, but so what if we are not. The fact of the matter is, something is happening on this planet and we need to look at this as an opportunity to change things. We need to look at this as an opportunity to conserve energy, to cut back on our oil use, to cut back on all energy use, to cut back on resource exploitation. To really become much more conscience and to realize that life is not about possessing more and more material goods. What makes us happy is not that. What makes us happy is decent living conditions, being taken care of in our old age, being loved, being taken care of as babies. It’s pretty simple.

And we need to really focus on these things. And look at the fact of global warming as a wake up call that we really need to change our relationship to the planet, to ourselves, and to each other. And the way we conduct our lives and run our institutions.

Hillary Raimo:  David from Fort Collins writes in, he asks to play Devil’s Advocate for a minute, how does John think we can possibly convince most Americans that three SVU’s and a 60 inch TV is not their God given birth right?

John Perkins:  Well I think it’s happening, to be honest. I really think people are beginning to get it. And they may not have acted accordingly yet, but it takes awhile. Confessions of an Economic Hit Man came out in late 2004, I was on an extensive college speaking tour most of 2005, including a lot of the MBA programs including Thornton, Stanford, the famous MBA programs. Every time I spoke at one of these schools I arranged to have dinner with anywhere from a dozen to three dozen students before I spoke. And I would say to them, let’s go around the table and I want to hear from each of you why are you at this school and why are you having dinner with me? What are your aspirations? Back in 2005 they were all of them talking about money and power, that’s what they were there for. That’s what they wanted.

Well this last year I did something very similar, went on the same basic tour of many of the same colleges in 2009 and then again in Spring of 2010. I didn’t hear that at all. I heard a very different story from, basically the same, not the same individuals students, but the same class of students. And now their saying they want to create a better world. That they realize that if they’re going to have kids, they’ve got to create a better world. Many of them said they have big college loans, that they have to go to work for corporations to pay off those loans, but that’s not why they are in these business schools. They’re there because they want to become entrepreneurs and do things that will make a better world.

I think things, Hillary are changing. I think consciousness is changing. When you consider that’s over a period of five years, and it may seem like a long time in our lives sometimes, five years, in history it’s not even a blink. So I hope that things are happening, but we have to keep pushing. People like you, this program, keep pushing, pushing, getting the word out. This is what’s so important. We must educate ourselves and each other.

Hillary Raimo:  John, you have an extensive background and experience in Shamanic cultures, indigenous cultures that you came across when you were working in these third world countries. Has that played a part in your coming out of this with such a drastically different perspective?

John Perkins:  It absolutely did, Hillary. I thank these indigenous cultures and the Shamans. I still have a very strong connection. I have three god-children in the Amazon and Andes, where children are Shamans, elder teachers there. And one of the things they always teach is that change is possible. Anything is possible. All you have to do is change your dream. Change your consciousness. A book I wrote before Confessions of an Economic Hit Man was The World Is As You Dream It, it’s still available at bookstores. You can get it at my website, but it really addresses that the Shamans say when you have a dream, whether it’s an individual or a cultural dream, you give it energy it manifests.

And we, in our culture, have given energy to a dream of big material success, lots of cars, big industry, lots of tall buildings. It manifested. And now we are realizing it’s destroying us. And it’s threatening to destroy us. And so we need to change that dream to a dream as I outlined before of living a life that’s much more satisfying than a life that’s solely based on materialism. So we need to create a new dream. And Shamanism has taught me the incredible potential for doing that and that it can happen very quickly. Another book I wrote is Shape Shifting, which is about that. How you can change that energy and shape shift, an individual or a culture very quickly.

Hillary Raimo:  Let’s imagine someone who works in a corporate world whose job gives them a sense of hopelessness. How could they shape shift that sense of hopelessness?

John Perkins:  Now I teach a workshop on that at the Omega Institute in upstate New York every summer in August. I suggest you come to it. Go to It’s a process that’s hard to describe in 5 minutes here, but I think the important thing here is to understand that shape shifting is all about energy. In fact everything is energy. That’s why it’s so important to us, our main energy source. And everything we do is about energy. Eisenstein said matter and energy, that’s what it’s all about and so when we give our energy to a certain dream or certain idea we shape shift into that. And if we change that idea, that dream, that concept, that para dime, and we give energy to a new one. And we truly do it, it will manifest. It’s eerie how that happens.

If you read the thoughts of most of the great people that have made a mark in history whether it’s someone like a George Washington or Martha Washington, or someone like a Thomas Edison or Rosa Parks, or who ever, Eisenstein. You’ll see that they are all about changing energy. Giving new energy to a new intent, a new dream, a new preset.

And in the case of Rosa Parks, for example, all she had to do was sit in front of the bus instead of the back. I say all she had to do and at the time that took a tremendous amount of courage. A tremendous amount of energy. Psychic and emotional as well as physical energy just to move from the back of the bus to the front. But it changed the world. It absolutely changed the world.

Hillary Raimo:  What a beautiful example. Talking to John Perkins. You can go to his website to find out more about his upcoming events and his books So John, you also do trips, I understand, to different sacred sites around the world. How did you get involved into doing that?

John Perkins:  Well I’ve been doing it since 1991, when I saw the Amazon. I went down there and told them I wanted to help them save their forests. Then you’ve got to change the dream of your people. That’s where the book The World Is As You Dream It came from. And they said so for one thing you could bring people down here to learn from us about shape shifting. I’ve probably taken a thousand people into the Amazon over the past 20 years to learn about that. And now that it’s December I’m doing it with my co facilitator Lynn Roberts. To Guatemala to the Mayans, to really look into the 2012 prophecy.

And this Tipping Point Conference in Vancouver July 22 -28 is on the same thing, the Tipping Point Prophecies and they are the organizers of the December trip. Lynn and I let a trip of about 25 people last December to the Mayan to work with their Shamans, their elders. And explore the true meaning of 2012 and we’re doing another one this December. It’s a wonderful experience to be among these sacred sites, these huge pyramids, these amazing sites, do ceremony, do fire ceremonies late at night. Really get into the Shamanic vision and journey to really experience it and work with these extremely powerful Shamanic teachers, men and women. I enjoy it immensely and the people on the trips get a great deal out of it. It’s very experiential, it’s wonderful.

Hillary Raimo:  You have to change the dream of your people. What is the message in that statement that you’d like to share with our listeners?

John Perkins:  Well I think that we, first of all it’s very easy to give up. It’s very easy just throw up your hands and say oh the problems just to big, it’s just too difficult. That doesn’t accomplish anything. You know, thank God Rosa Parks didn’t say that, or Rachel Carson didn’t say that about DVT, instead she sat down and wrote a book, she had no idea whether it would be published or not. It became a silent spring that started a worldwide environmental movement. You can look at individuals throughout history, we mustn’t throw our hands up and give up. Instead, we have to get on the internet or do whatever individuals most moved to do. Get on the streets, demonstrate, call people, do whatever. Take action, we have to take action. And when we start to take action and give energy to our new dream, it happens, it does manifest. And it’s good to make it manifest to the new dream has to be about a sustainable just and peaceful for every child on the planet. And we all need to give that as much energy as we can.

Hillary Raimo:  John Perkins, everybody. John thanks so much for joining me on the air, it’s been a pleasure.

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Dr. Judy Wood, The Jumpers & The Holes, Hillary Raimo Transcripts Part 2

(originally recorded January 2011 The Hillary Raimo Show on Achieve Radio)


Hillary Raimo:   Hi everybody. Welcome back to another segment. I’m Hillary Raimo. Back on December 16th I had a wonderful, fabulous, very inspiring guest join me, Dr. Judy Wood, to talk about the weaponization of free energy technology and the reality of them and how 9/11 was an example of this according to the evidence that she has collected. She is a scientist. She works from data. She’s not a conspiracy theorist. She doesn’t get into so much the who done it, but the how have they done it.

Dr. Wood holds a Bachelors in Civil Engineering and also Structural Engineering. She holds a Masters in Engineering Mechanics and Applied Physics and a PhD in Materials Engineering Science from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Virginia.

Now before we begin I would like to very, very passionately say to everybody out there that this was a very traumatic event for everybody on the planet and this is in no way a disrespectful conversation to the people who lost their lives. I think in really looking for the truth as to what happened we are actually in fact trying to pay homage to those people who passed away. This is not about sensationalism or trying to bring the topic in to use it for any other way except for exposing the truth and really trying to find what happened because when you look at Dr. Wood’s evidence and when you look at her website and you can follow along with us tonight and that’s really what I suggest you do, is you get on your computers and you go to Look at the pictures and you follow along because the impact of looking the pictures and listening to her evidence and what she says really is just eye opening. Welcome Dr. Judy Wood. Thank you so much for joining me again.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well thank you for having me back.

Hillary Raimo:  Let’s start with what you call DEW, and the Hutchison Effect.

Dr. Judy Wood:  The first big series is called Star Wars Direct Energy Weapons. Well you remember the Star Wars program in terms of the Reagan years for the strategic defense initiative. That’s what it was called, but everybody knew about it. Everybody knew there were lots of dollars being poured into it. When I first started putting up this information, folks said energy weapons don’t exist. That’s impossible and it’s Buck Rogers, or so far in the future. Well what went on all that time during the Star Wars program? A gazillion dollars or however much went into that for years and before that, was the forerunner to that program. You mean they keep pouring money into a program that’s totally useless? You mean they haven’t had an R & D work? You know Research and Development since 1945, the atomic bomb?

Microwave ovens came to be around 1945. Then we had lasers in the mid-50’s were developed. Hasn’t technology come a lot further since then? We don’t hear about it, but we know we had this Star Wars program. So the people in the Star Wars program, they were researching energy weapons. That was my kind of hint to this is real. Other countries surely have the analogous department studying energy weapons.

Energy weapons have been around for many years and so I first named it that as a way of establishing yeah, it exists, so can we move on? Energy weapons are here and now. What do you do with a remote control on your TV? It’s not an energy weapon, but it’s directed energy. There was a series where I focused on things so if folks want go to a nice little bit of everything page, the cliff notes page, which is and from there you’ll see a little guy at the top waving. It says Index. They’re not the rest of the page down, but there’s a little index above each section.

That shows you also when you click on that you’ll see all the different categories of evidence, or most of them, and different things that need to be explained. If you want to jump to different sections you can and then hit that little index thing about each section to jump back to the section. So it’s like everything on one page.

Hillary Raimo:  Is this a dangerous topic to talk about? Many are hesitant to discuss this publicly. Do most people find this hard to believe?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well yeah, you get marginalized big time and the biggest thing is the connection they don’t want anyone to make with 9/11 is the connection to free energy. This is free energy technology.

Hillary Raimo:  If it were admitted that we had this technology to use as a weapon, we’d have to admit that we also have it for the positive aspects, right?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Exactly and if it’s not the US’s technology, I’m not saying who did it. If it’s not the US’s technology that did it, why isn’t someone studying what happened because obviously it’s a wonderful technology to use for good things? So if the US doesn’t have this free energy technology they would want to study this to acquire it.

Hillary Raimo:  Well it certainly makes you stop and think because there’s a lot to think about.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Whoops, I don’t hear anything. Just got cut off for a second.

Hillary Raimo:  Oh, did we lose you?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Yeah, I’m back.

Hillary Raimo:  Okay well the connection is a little sketchy so we’ll have to play it as we go. Welcome to live radio folks. Speaking of technology if we have all this hi tech technology, you would think we could make the internet connections better.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Right, right but then you take jobs away from people who need to repair problems.

Hillary Raimo:  True. There are people who are perpetuating the funding of research for free energy technology, wanting to build free energy technology, but the fact is that it’s already been built yes?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Right, and it’s been demonstrated. John Hutchison has demonstrated it but Nikola Tesla demonstrated it and John Hutchison was only replicating Nikola Tesla’s work from 100 years ago. So yeah it exists but if you pour in all sorts of money into the Collider Project, all sorts of free energy development, it looks like we don’t have it and you can convince people we don’t have it.

Hillary Raimo:  What is the Collider Project?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Who knows? Maybe I should go visit them and sit there for 24 hours a day and watch them. Nobody knows.

Hillary Raimo:  It is interesting to watch money evaporate into the funding and the wishful wanting of these kinds of things and if we already have them, makes you wonder how long we’ve had them and how long we could have been out of this state of the world that we’re in today. So Judy moving on into your research I have to be honest with you. When I was reading what you sent me for a preview for this show, there was a chapter in there that was extraordinarily difficult and I talked to you about this before we came on the air tonight. Your theory on the jumpers and because I think it’s important to talk about let’s get right into it.

Dr. Judy Wood: Yeah, this chapter is about opening your eyes and observing. It’s toward the beginning of the book where the idea is to you know we saw these people who appeared to have jumped out and we were told they jumped out and once humans are given an answer they quit asking questions. That’s something I’ve discovered. So people don’t go back usually and re-evaluate it.

Hillary Raimo:  Well my mind didn’t want to keep reading it and it was interesting because you had addressed that in the beginning of the chapter where you said most people when they come to this kind of topic they don’t want to know. There’s a denial aspect, but what I found fascinating was the parts where you pointed out where people were hanging on the side of the buildings getting undressed, taking their clothes off.

Dr. Judy Wood: Right.

Hillary Raimo:  Why were they hanging off the building 100 stories up and taking their clothes off? There was a very clear picture of a gentleman taking his pants off. Why would he want to take his pants off while 100 stories up and in the middle of all that was happening?

Dr. Judy Wood:  So when I got into this I just collected a whole bunch of the jumper pictures, and I tried to imagine what was going through each of their minds, their facial expressions and so forth. I really felt like they were trying to communicate with us. First you want to turn away and push it in the background because you don’t want to go back and relive that day again, but then when I realized they were communicating with us. These were their last words, their last thoughts. I felt an obligation and I made a promise to them to tell their story, what it was like from their perspective and that’s the way I started looking at it.

Okay, this fellow who is hanging from the 105th floor taking his pants off and you notice other ones have. There are some that are falling with their pant leg trailing, but I got to thinking. If I was on the 105th floor and this fire, I’d be the first one to the bathroom, get my extra clothing that I kept in my desk and soak it down and wrap around my head. Soak my body down and head for the door. I’d be wet. Well if the water had been cut off … If the sprinklers had gone off, we’d be wet. If the water had been cut off and there wasn’t water to a floor and there was fire, we’d be hot and sweating and we’d be wet. Any which way you look at it, you’d be wet.

So then I’m thinking of this guy who’s hanging out the window by a hand and a foot taking his pants off. If there is a problem with smoke, you just hold your breath, step inside, for whatever weird reason he wants to get his pants off. Take the pants off, jump back outside or hang back outside, start breathing again. If there’s some particular reason he needs to get his pants off, why is he hanging outside by a hand and a foot from the 105th floor to take his pants off?

Also, fire you know, clothes protect you from the fire. If there is fire in there and heat, why do the firefighters wear big heavy coats? To protect them from the fire. Why do you wear a mitt as you barbecue grill? It protects you from the fire, so why would you want to take your pants off or your shirt off and especially hanging outside the building? If you need to get your clothes off, why not just step inside? What could possibly be going on in there that would make wet clothes an unacceptable condition? Any which way you look at it, they’re probably wet.

Also, there didn’t seem to be any smoke coming out the window, or fumes of any kind especially if you’re upwind. Why did they need to be outside? Well let’s see. Start thinking about other things, you know we had all this paper that didn’t burn. I’m not saying this is what it is, but just as an example. You put in your microwave oven something on a paper towel, the paper towel doesn’t burn, but the other stuff cooks. The Active Denial System that’s used for crowd control, they say it is much, much worse if your skin is wet or your clothing is wet because it fries the moisture. The water model fields are getting more excited so you’re much better off to have dry skin.

If you were getting in the middle of one of these beams from an Active Denial System and you’re wearing sopping wet clothes, you maybe even decide to take your clothes off. Now the guy obviously wants to live because why is he still hanging there. You know also another thing I notice is everyone who looks to be falling is empty handed. If someone had chosen to jump, wouldn’t they have a picture of their loved one with them, women have their purse or have something in their hand? These are empty handed people. There’s one guy flapping his wings like how did I get here? You know doesn’t know how he got out there. It’s like they’re caught by surprise out there.

Also, if something is just intolerably uncomfortable you don’t even stop to think about it. Like your hand on a burner of your stove, if you put your hand on that burner and it’s hot, you don’t have to decide to take it off. Your hand goes flying off of there. I wondered for a while if that’s what it was, but these people didn’t seem to be burning up from physical heat. It’s something else. That’s how I saw that situation.

Hillary Raimo:  Most people would not know that wetness aggravates the skin with microwave exposure. It was a very powerful moment to make that connection with your proposed perspective.

You also discuss the distance from the building that they were falling, if they were just jumping they would have been falling closer to the side of the building and instead they were very far away from the building as they fell.

Dr. Judy Wood: Right, I used the world’s record for the standing broad jump from the Olympics 1906 or so figuring that was a good number for the average person, what shoes they have in their office, for taking a leap out the window, what speed and approximated how far they would be going assuming they’re going horizontally as they’re falling. If they jump from the highest floor, by the time they get to the lower mechanical floor which you can see in this picture maybe they could be about 100 feet from the building. Maybe if they really gave it their all. How could this person be that far? It doesn’t make sense that they could drift out that far from the building. There’s also body parts found even further away, but that’s a different issue. There’s also testimony of a body that one firefighter saw come apart and turn into a cloud of red. He kept saying, “I didn’t need to see that. I didn’t need to see that.”

Hillary Raimo:  The average person wouldn’t know they were falling too far from the building. It would go unnoticed and surpassed by the emotional charge of it.

Dr. Judy Wood: Well there is actually a window washier who fell from the 47th story a couple of years ago from a building in New York. He got busted up. His brother didn’t live, but he got busted up. He was in a coma for a while then he woke up and started talking. Then got his legs fixed and got back in business. It’s not likely that you’re going to survive, but it is possible. The same with hitting a deer. Driving at 80 miles an hour if you smack into a deer, the deer doesn’t pulverize. It doesn’t turn into liquid. It gets busted up. It might live a little bit depending on how things are, if you rushed it to surgery, did CPR on it whatever, it might survive. But you don’t get a piece of fur here, a half a tail over here, a piece of hoof over here, a tooth over there. The deer doesn’t come apart like that. You have busted up bones, but it’s still kind of in the same general area.

Hillary Raimo:  So from the 47th floor he survived the fall?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Yes.

Hillary Raimo:  The gentleman that fell from the twin towers, now if we’re talking another 50 floors, the chances of someone surviving that are obviously not going to happen so-

Dr. Judy Wood:  Not necessarily, not necessarily. The likelihood decreases but there have been some interesting survivor stories of people with parachutes not opening.

Hillary Raimo:  From 100 stories high.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Right, that’s at least 100 stories high where they’re jumping from an airplane and the parachute doesn’t open. You get up to terminal velocity and you don’t go much faster.

Hillary Raimo:  So their body doesn’t disintegrate the way you were describing and turn to a cloud of red dust.

Dr. Judy Wood: Right, right. They get busted up. There have been some survivors, but most of them would get busted up. I know that sounds coarse saying it.

Hillary Raimo:  This is why I’m saying it was a hard chapter for me to get through because, excuse me, you have to get through the emotional impact of what you’re looking at and it’s a very, very difficult thing to look at the pictures that you have in your book. Once you get past that you have to just take on a scientific mind to read the data and just lay aside the emotions and just kind of breathe through it. But when you look at those images, combined with your explanation, it was a very impactful moment..

I think that a lot of people on the site that day wouldn’t have known that or maybe they were just so overwhelmed with what they were experiencing they didn’t process it that way. So I’m wondering if what you’re saying about them being in the building and being exposed to some kind of field, some kind of radiation type field or something where they’re taking their clothes off because it’s more uncomfortable to be wet in that field because it perpetuates the gene etc. that their body is somehow disintegrating from the inside out.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Yeah, yeah, there’s some of that happening. I have evidence of that that’s in my next book after this one, that some very strange things happened. Another reason, I’m kind of hesitant to say this. I’ve not said it on a radio show before, but I guess I can say this about the survival. I have personal experience that it’s possible to survive. I was hit by a pickup truck going in excess of 80 miles an hour and that’s about the same as terminal velocity. It’s not likely you’re going to survive. You end up very busted up. That’s why I feel I really could relate to these people.

So I feel like I have personal experience that you can survive. It’s unlikely and really busted up, but I felt like I could really relate to these people and maybe that helped me be able to see through their eyes and being at death’s door or whatever, and I felt even more obligated to tell their story because I feel that they would want their story told, what they’re experiencing, what was going on in their lives at that moment.

Hillary Raimo:  I have never seen these images of people getting undressed published on main stream media, main stream news. I don’t recall ever seeing the picture that you have in the book where they were hanging out. You have to get over that emotional wave first to be able to put that logical common sense pieces together on this piece of evidence.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Actually that was a very well known published piece. It was seen in most of the media.

Hillary Raimo:  I guess I just didn’t see it.

Dr. Judy Wood: But we didn’t observe what was in the picture.

Hillary Raimo:  Right, right and there was a person who looked like they were actually holding onto a phone trying to record what was happening. He was holding it out at arm’s length in one of the pictures and it looked like he was trying to record what was going on. Is this the first time that we’ve seen this technology used or do you feel that this is something that has been used in other instances?

Dr. Judy Wood: Well on this scale seeing an entire 110 story building turn to powder in mid-air, I don’t think we’ve seen that before. You know how many 110 story buildings are there and we’ve got these mega skyscrapers come apart.

Hillary Raimo:  Why would they have to use this kind of technology to bring the building down? Why not just use explosives to do it? There are many theories out there that discuss this event being a controlled demolition.

Dr. Judy Wood:  For one thing you don’t demolish a building in Manhattan without causing collateral damage if that’s what the motive is. We don’t know what the motive is. We can only take observations of what we see, but one thing I will say about safety factor and design, structures are designed with a particular … I think I talked about this last time, the safety factor and the importance factor.

Hillary Raimo:  Yes.

Dr. Judy Wood: Like if it’s out in the middle of a cornfield in Iowa, you know it’s not going to take out anybody else if it falls, but in Manhattan you’ve got to worry about the adjacent buildings. I don’t think there’s any control demolition company that would be able to, with the most amount of skills and preparation, to be able to take these building down without demolishing something across the street. Like Building Seven didn’t even spill across the street, didn’t scratch the post office. But the buildings didn’t collapse. They turned to powder. They just kind of went away, you know, gone with the wind.

Hillary Raimo:  Let’s talk about Building Seven for a second because Building Seven didn’t even get hit by anything and there were other buildings in between it. Do you feel that that was a side effect of what was happening or was that seismic? Was there something going on? How did that fall the way that it fell?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well it didn’t really fall. It appears to have fallen but I think that’s just the facade that did that because there’s no evidence that the building slammed to the ground. Various seismic stations in the area couldn’t even pick out a signal out of background noise. Some of them could just barely and they said it was 0.6 on the Richter Scale, which is you know the same as a jackhammer on the sidewalk, a little bit more than a hammer on the tabletop, but it’s something you could sleep through just about and in New York City for sure you could sleep through it.

To have a 47 story building where each floor is about the size of a football field … Imagine these planes in space and about 250 dump trucks on each floor and suddenly come crashing to ground. It should sound like raining dump trucks. You hear one dump truck rumbling down the road when you’re trying to sleep at night, you know bumpety, bumpety, bump, that’s all a racket. The sound was not appropriate, an appropriate level in Building Seven and neither was the ground shaking. It didn’t shake.

Hillary Raimo:  Now on your website you make mention of a few things that I find interesting. You talk about the evidence of molecular dissociation and transmutation as demonstrated by the near instant rusting of affected steel. You also talk about weird fires, the appearance of fire but without evidence of heating, lack of high heat. Witnesses reported that the initial dust cloud felt cooler than the ambient temperatures and there was no evidence of burned bodies, and that columns were curled around a vertical axis like rolled up carpets, where overloaded buckled beams should be bent around the horizontal axis and you have pictures of this on your website at

One thing that I also find interesting was that office paper was densely spread throughout lower Manhattan that day and unburned alongside often cars that appeared to be burning. So we have a lot of anomalies here with this and what I’m curious about is what kind of anomalies do these direct energy weapons create that we lay people who aren’t scientists wouldn’t know to look for? Are these examples of that?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well those are directed, it just means energy that gets directed. It’s controlled as to where it affects things. What I do in my book is go through simple, every day examples that we are familiar with where we see this anomaly but we don’t recognize it as being part of it. For example, something I like to say is hot things glow, but not everything that glows is hot. Folks see things glowing in the pictures in the aftermath or see something glowing and they assume it’s molten metal or red hot, but think of a fluorescent light compared to an incandescent light. The fluorescent light doesn’t burn your hands. The incandescent one which is a resistance heating coil that’s just it’s so hot that it glows.

It’s a different mechanism that causes fluorescent light to glow and so you know that light can be made in different ways. There’s also other phenomena that we know like you notice I call it the swamp, the street where just every car was toasted and the paper got wet from the fire hoses and the dust. It looked like a swamp. Every single car was toasted. Nothing else was. There’s sign posts that were fine. There were trees with leaves still on them and buildings on the sides. Nothing else was toasted so let’s see what the differences are. It wasn’t that the gas tank exploded. When you start looking at what the differences are and you realize the car was on [inaudible 00:34:13] tires. You there?

Hillary Raimo:  Yes.

Dr. Judy Wood: Oh all right. I thought we got cut off again. So it’s insulated from the ground. Perhaps there’s something different that happens to it if it’s not grounded. You start picking up different phenomena like that. You talk about molecular dissociation. My aha moment for that was noticing that soon after the dust landed, slightly upwind you could see clear blue sky. Then a little bit after that, you start seeing fuzzy stuff around people’s feet. Then some of the stuff starts rising on its own. That could only be happening if coarse dust landed and then became fine, so fine that it rose up because if it’s fine dust that’s rising up, how could it have landed? Why would it have been on the ground?

So it continued breaking down and then there’s a continuing ongoing reaction. One of the things when I discovered the Hutchison Effect was one of the hallmark signs of it especially in large mass, non self-quenching was the term that really got me. We had a non self-quenching issue going on with Bankers Trust. Bankers Trust had a gash in the front. It was right across from Building Two.

Hillary Raimo:  You mentioned that on your website. It had a cylindrical arc that was cut into it.

Dr. Judy Wood: Right and they replaced those beams and columns and then decided to take the building apart.

Hillary Raimo:  So you mean they put the building back together and then they decided to take it back apart?

Dr. Judy Wood:  To dismantle it and I think there’s like one or two stories left. They’re still working on it after nine years.

Hillary Raimo:  Well you also mentioned the vertical round holes that were cut into Buildings Four, Five, and Six and into Liberty Street in front of Bankers Trust. So are we dealing with the same effect affecting all these buildings? Describe to me how this is important noticing vertical round holes in these particular places.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Vertical round holes aren’t natural. Well not natural as far as what you get with a building collapse. It’s also you look down they’re empty. There’s just nothing in these and soon after the day of the event there’s some people climbing down on a long ladder down to the basement and they’re walking through a puddle of water. It wasn’t hot there. There’s just nothing down there; empty cavern. You know what’s this deal with this hollow hole? How does that happen if you have a collapse? It doesn’t make sense. Nothing can fall in it and then pulverize itself as well as the hole.

Then I started looking at the, when I was looking at the Hutchison Effect, he had solid aluminum bars with holes that would appear in them, like a vertical hole to the side but not all the way through and then another hole sideways. You couldn’t drill it like that in a normal drilling technique at all. It’s just like it tunnels a cylindrical hole. This reacts like this is a small scale, but my first inkling was okay it’s tempting to say something. This is hole punched from above like a post hole digger but that’s thinking of what we know with conventional methods, or somewhat conventional. It’s a phenomena that works around an axis and everything in a particular radial distance from that axis, it’s destroyed. That seems like what could also be the case.

Hillary Raimo:  So these vertical round holes that were cut into the buildings from above are evidence in your opinion of free energy technology at work? and it doesn’t add up to a typical demolition story correct?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Right, it’s not from conventional bombs in the building. It’s not anything conventional that we’ve seen before; to see cylindrical holes with material just missing in that cylindrical cutout.

Hillary Raimo:  Did they release the pictures of that publicly? I know you have quite a few on your website and for those of you following along on you can find them on there. I don’t remember seeing any of them released publicly like on the news or people that were covering it. I could be wrong. It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, but I’m just curious if you feel that that was perhaps part of what was kind of not really so much part of the story.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Oh, the funny thing is all of this stuff has been out there. It’s been out there since the beginning if you looked enough, but are we still connected?

Hillary Raimo:  Yes we’re still here.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Okay, when I first started talking with other people about this I said, “What about these holes?” They said, “Oh that’s already been taken care of. We’ve already ruled out that it was explosives.” Like move on. Don’t look back. Move on. That’s when I was thinking, okay when most people when they’re given an answer they quit asking questions and so if people are told that then they move on. Oh somebody already looked into that. Who looked into that? What did they come up with and why?

There’s a video I have on my book order site, which is going to be available soon where Peter Jennings is talking to George Stephanopoulos. This is at 12:30 on the 12th, the very next day. Peter Jennings asks George Stephanopoulos, “Where did the buildings go?” George Stephanopoulos says, “Well I’ve been asking around. It was just such massive buildings. They all fell down and then just turned to dust and evaporated.” That’s what he said on the 12th. They noticed the lack of material. That was okay, he got an answer so he moved on, but how many people are going to question that.

Hillary Raimo:  Do you think people are kind of duped into a story? Duped into the whole timeline? How do they know who did it within hours after something like that happens? Do you think the majority of people were wrapped up into the anger and scooped up into the whole traumatizing emotional aspect of this to really be settled down to look at this from a more logical perspective perhaps? Do you think that that’s what happened either intentionally or unintentionally? That’s pretty much what happened. People couldn’t look at it from critical mind.

Dr. Judy Wood: You get them to act on instinct and reaction. They’ll grab their pitchforks. They need to go after the bad guy. You don’t stop to think innocent until proven guilty, but you know it’s just because they were told this person is guilty or these people are guilty, grab your pitchfork and go after them. Once people, first impressions stick. Once people get that in their mind it’s hard to undo it.

Hillary Raimo:  Well we’ve spent a lot of money in other countries since and have done a lot of damage because of this event. There were a lot of consequences following this event. It’s unfortunate but when we look at these things being presented here it’s very difficult to not go back and take a look at it and see it from a different perspective. You mentioned some interesting facts that I’d like to read off of your website and then I’d like to ask you a question in closing what you feel is going on with some current events in the world.

You did mention here that all planes except top secret missions were ordered down until 10:31 a.m. when only military flights were allowed to resume after both towers were destroyed and only two minutes, 120 seconds after World Trade Center One had been destroyed. Why were all the planes ordered down? Was it because of what was going on or was it because something was being allowed to happen, in your opinion?

Dr. Judy Wood:  I do not know. That was news reports that I had seen. We do remember hearing on the news that commercial flights were all grounded. Everybody had to land as soon as they could, but I didn’t realize until I had seen that and then I put it in that article after … I mean after I started drafting it. I didn’t realize that even military aircraft were ordered down. But then what were these helicopters that were flying around? I still don’t know. What’s the story? Why weren’t they ordered to? Except top secret mission, was that top secret mission? We don’t know. But one thing is you can speculate and say, well you had all these toasted cars, were they afraid of having toasted airplanes in the neighborhood?

Hillary Raimo:  We have about 10 minutes left. I’d like to ask you; now you also say on here that the magnetic field readings in Alaska had a recorded abrupt shift in the earth’s magnetic field with each of the events on the World Trade Center site on 9/11. With the current happenings of all these birds falling out of the sky and fish bubbling up out of the water on shores in many parts of the United States and also around the world. Also, the earth magnetic fields, they’re shifting naturally and yet we also have technology messing around with the fields. Is it normal to see a reaction so far away from the actual site of the event? Would you care to talk about the science of that briefly? Are these things related/connected?

Dr. Judy Wood: It was picked up I guess around the earth in various degrees and various seismic stations, but there’s a noise here and there’s sometimes from space weather. I checked with space weather for that day and there wasn’t any solar storm. You get weird things happening here and there, but it really when you have every single event of the five events something abruptly happening at the exact same time in the magnetometer readings, it begs the question.

For about 20 minutes before the North Tower got its hole, not making any sense in how it got its hole, but for about 20 minutes before that all of the magnetometers that had been fairly quiet started veering off and decreasing in magnitude from their norm and as soon as the North Tower got its hole, they abruptly started to change direction, started increasing. Then when the South Tower got its hole, they abruptly leveled off. Then right when the South Tower went poof, destroyed, whatever, they started going down.

Then right when Tower One went poof, they dropped off a cliff, really went down. That got me thinking. Why did it go down and up and then down, down? It was all haywire all afternoon and then it gets under control right about the time that Building Seven goes poof. I’m thinking well, let’s see what the pattern is. You have the North Tower getting a hole from North to South, the South Tower getting a hole from South to North. Both towers went poof from top to bottom. Building Seven was destroyed from all around, but the final demise was bottom to top.

Could it be that one reverses the other in what’s happening? I don’t know but with these other, just some questions to think about. One thing that I have been thinking about was the birds falling out of the sky, think about how John Hutchison does his magic. It’s magic if you don’t understand it. He has a static field and within that static field he interferes different types of radio frequency signals. So let’s say in the natural environment you coincidentally have a static field and then some radio frequency signal interferes with it. What might happen? It’s an interferometry type thing. It’s interference of different types of energy that cause these weird things.

So think about this planet. You have so many different kinds of energy beams and fields going all over the planet and you have different kinds of weather patterns moving around. Now we do know when we get a tornado you have the weirdest things happen. Tornadoes, where do they come from? They come out of nowhere and it’s a tremendous amount of energy that they pull out of nowhere; free energy. So I see a lot of similarities with that and a lot of things that we should think about with regards to all these different kinds of energy waves that we’re sending around the planet. What are we doing to the environment? Even if you don’t see them, it doesn’t mean they’re not causing a problem and it could be that they interfered in a particular environment.

You know static field, there was a static field there. There’s evidence of that and so if you interfere these particular kind of radio frequency signals in that and these birds happen to be flying through at the wrong place at the wrong time, poof, down they go.

Hillary Raimo:  Instantly.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Instantly.

Hillary Raimo:  Now why is it just birds and fish? Is it just because they resonate with that field?

Dr. Judy Wood:  I don’t know about the fish. I haven’t looked into that any, but the birds have some strange things with them. You know, bugs come pouring out of the mouth and there’s this one. I saw a video of that he landed but he wasn’t chirping. He was walking around in circles like his brain was messed up.

Hillary Raimo:  Like there was some neurological damage done to it.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Right.

Hillary Raimo:  Now can it happen to humans?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well if you look at the World Trade Center, there is effects on humans. They were just [crosstalk 00:50:19].

Hillary Raimo:  This is not a show for the light hearted.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Sorry.

Hillary Raimo:  No, don’t apologize because you know Judy there are certain people in this world that won’t stay quiet because they can’t and they’re not supposed to. Your research is valid and it’s important for people to be able to take a look at it and come to their own conclusions both personally and professionally in whatever field they come from, and I acknowledge the fact that you are staying out of the conspiracy circles. You’re not trying to jump into the who done it and all of this other stuff which I think is important and what you’re presenting also because you really are giving us an opportunity to look at the science, look at the evidence of these kinds of things, these kinds of technologies that are real. They are out there. They are at work right now and they are not science fiction and people who can’t wrap their minds around it are going to have to deal with the evidence of these things.

We are out of time. Judy I’d like to say thank you so much for joining me once again for Part 2. I wish you the best of luck and when your book comes out please let me know so I can make it available on my website for people to contact you to order also. Thank you for being here.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Thank you so much again.

Hillary Raimo:  Everybody listening it’s up to you to really figure out what truth is. Use your heart and your intuition to guide you through that. That’s really the only advice I have for you after such an incredible amount of information. Other then to read Dr. Wood’s book. Thank you for being here.

Dr. Judy Wood Part 1 Transcript 

Copyright 2017 all rights reserved. No part of this transcript may be reproduced without written permission 


Dr. Judy Wood, Evidence of an Unknown Physics at the 9/11 site, Hillary Raimo Show Transcripts

(Recorded December 2010 on The Hillary Raimo Show hosted by Achieve Radio) 
2017 thoughts: This show and Dr. Woods book has changed my perspective on the events of 9/11. Free energy technology has been debated and presented by many well credited researchers over the years as real. Could it be that the industrial complex has weaponized this technology and buried it in the military industrial complex for their own agendas? As is the case with most well intended inventions. Dr. Wood has been harassed, bullied, laughed at and ridiculed for presenting her professional analysis of 9/11, in an effort I believe to shut her down and shut her up. This transcript offers but only a brief glimpse into her work. Her book is a worthy investment.


Hillary Raimo:  9/11 was an incredible event for everybody on this planet. It changed our way of life, and has cost lives not only on the day of, but afterward around the world since. We have lost a lot of freedoms in wake of the event. What really happened? Tonight we explore the theories of Dr. Judy Wood.

We are in no way doing this show tonight to be disrespectful to the people who lost their lives on 9/11, or those families who are living without their loved ones. We are compassionate to the realities of how emotional this show will be for many people.

In this episode Dr. Wood will be talking about the weaponization of free energy technology, she will explain to us what nonlethal weapons are and how 9/11 may have been an example of this technology. Dr. Wood will be presenting some pretty fascinating material, in my opinion. She is well educated and her credentials are impressive. Dr. Judy Wood holds a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering and structural engineering, a master’s in engineering mechanics and applied physics. She has a Ph.D. in materials engineering science from the Department of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Polytech Institute and the State University in Blacksburg, Virginia. Her dissertation involved the development of an experimental method to measure thermal stresses and bimaterial joints, and she has taught courses including experimental stress analysis, engineering mechanics, mechanics of material.

After this episode you may change your mind about 9/11, and perhaps rethink other events in this world. Her website is and it offers a tremendous amount of valuable, intense and inclusive material that I think you would all find very interesting. So welcome, Dr. Wood. Thank you for joining me.

Dr. Judy Wood: Well, thank you so much for having me. What you said, that 9/11 was an extraordinary and incredible event, yes. Yes, it was.

Hillary Raimo:  Please discuss for us the basics of what your theory is about, and explain to us the technology. Let’s just go right into it.

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well, it isn’t what I think, and actually, I’d like to read a small portion from my book that addresses this very issue. I’d like to … For the record, I do not believe that our government is responsible for executing the events of 9/11, nor do I believe that our government is not responsible for executing the events of 9/11. It’s not a case of belief. This was a crime that should be solved by a forensic study of the evidence. Before it can be determined who did it, it must first be determined what was done, and how it was done. You can’t convict someone legally based on belief. If you want to charge them with murder using a gun, you’d better make sure the body has a bullet hole in it. Yet, before noon on 9/11, we were told who did it, and how they did it, why they did it, because they hate us for our freedoms, before any investigations had been conducted as to what had been done.

I also feel that if anyone declared who did it, or how they did it before they determined what happened, it’s merely speculation or propaganda. The popular chant, 9/11 was an inside job, is scientifically speaking no different from the chant that 19 bad guys with box cutters did it. Neither one is the results of a scientific investigation supported by evidence that would be admissible in court. We need to determine first what happened.

Hillary Raimo:  Okay, so in your opinion, what did happen?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Well, often, we’re led to look at false choices because that distracts us from looking at the evidence. But if you listen to the evidence carefully enough, it’ll tell you exactly what happened. The trick though is to not get distracted away from looking at the evidence.

If you look at it that day, and one of my first reactions was where did the buildings go? This is nothing I trust. And before noon, there was a lot of coverup stories, like it all shipped to China, but it couldn’t have been shipped to China before noon on that day. And I’ve got a picture, you can tell what day it is because building seven is still standing, and you should have a 110-story building between you and building seven. It’s just flat ground, essentially, and there’s an ambulance parked in front of tower one. It’s still parked there, there’s just no more tower one.

It’s rather incredible to think of two 500,000-ton buildings just going away. That morning, there were two buildings there, and then they went away. How they went away is a big mystery. If you think about how much material that was and what happened, it is indeed an extraordinary event. Yes, it was used for something really ugly. It was used for destructive purposes, but it shows us a technology that exists that maybe we can use for other purposes.

So as we look around, let’s see what this technology can do. So we have an absence of debris, a very gross absence of debris, and we have what I call dustification. I established a new vocabulary to describe new phenomena. If you wanted to be scientific, you don’t know the mechanism or the phenomena you want to describe, you can’t use a description that applies to a known phenomena to describe an unknown phenomena, so what I do is use placeholders to describe that characteristic. Instead of using [inaudible 00:09:19] numbers, 279-5A, which is [inaudible 00:09:23] number, I’d call it fuzzballs, dustification, toasted cars. And what I mean by toasted cars, it isn’t to apply the cause. They’re toast, they’re history. It means they’re not repairable, something happened to ’em. [inaudible 00:09:40], they’re just gone or messed up.

So we have all these different types of categories. Round holes in windows in the outer pane from the double-paned window and the inner pane is still intact. [inaudible 00:09:58] a glass cutter can do that, and flipped cars, evidence of levitation. Some of the toasted cars are half a mile away.

There is so much dust. When you watch the materials that’s coming through the air, and I call those prefab units that made up the outer part of the building, Wheat Chex because they look like Wheat Chex. Actually, a photographer first called them that. And you see one of these Wheat Chex flying through the air in the videos, and as it comes down, it’s melting like ice cream. It just goes away before it hits the ground, and you see all these Wheat Chex coming down towards this particular intersection. Right afterwards, there’s a picture of the intersection, people coming out of their hiding places. There’s this paper dust. A few pieces of aluminum [inaudible 00:10:57] but just paper and dust.

Hillary Raimo:  I had a chance to stand on the site a few weeks after 9/11 happened with a hard hat and all along side the fire department, literally standing on leftover pieces of building, and looking straight down through holes in the ground. I saw papers, memos littered around the interior of the building debris perfectly in tact. A gold wedding ring embedded into a steal beam perfectly in tact like it had been pushed into putty. It was an extraordinary experience. But what I found most interesting was how quickly that debris was taken offsite. Where did it all go, and why do you think they took it away so fast?

Dr. Judy Wood:  One of the easiest traps to fall into is making an assumption at stage one as to what happened, because then when you go to stage two, if your first step is wrong, and the assumption is wrong, everything after that is going to be wrong, and it’s really hard, really hard to observe without a bias. We’ve heard so many things, it’s hard to tune them out.

Hillary Raimo:  Very true.

Dr. Judy Wood:  But let’s look at what happened, the buildings were turning to powder in midair. How much could they have hauled away if … I’m not saying all of the building turned to powder, but if 90% of the building turned to powder, is there anything to pick up and take out of there?

Hillary Raimo:  When I stood there, I observed the other buildings surrounding where the towers once stood were very much intact with the exception of a few. Such destruction should’ve caused more surrounding damage. How did building 7 get damaged from two planes hitting the twin towers? Everyone just drops that fact as dismissive and irrelevant. Why would the buildings turn to dust? Let’s get to the heart of it.

Dr. Judy Wood: Look at the data, the evidence leads away. Before I began this, I’d never thought of energy weapons. It just never crossed my mind, even though my area of expertise is in interferometry, but I never thought of directed energy weapons or any kind of military uses of weapons that involves energy, directed energy as opposed to kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is like if you launch a bullet, or a cannonball, or a bomb, something physically that it moves and destroys things.

But if you just keep looking at the data until you really feel that it’s speaking to you, one of the things I noticed about is this, is about 15 minutes after the north tower goes poof … I don’t say collapse. It went poof, and there’s no indication it went down, is this intersection, which people are standing, and there’s a slight breeze that day, like eight or nine mile-per-hour breeze, and so the air kinda cleared out pretty quickly after the tower went away.

And so you see this blue sky, off in the west, and then you notice around these people’s feet, dusty fuzz rising up. I call those fuzzballs, around the feet. Maybe they’re kicking it. And then, pretty soon, at the 20-minute mark, you see that the dust is rising up, all by itself. What does that tell us?

It tells us that coarse dust landed and then became fine. That fine dust could not have settled out of the air, why would it be going back up again? And the air is clear. So if you have coarse dust land that keeps breaking down, finer and finer, that’s an interesting process, and it broke down.

Hillary Raimo:  Thank you. For most people, they wouldn’t know, or notice, the dust even means anything. I just want to remind people that they can go to Dr. Wood’s website at, and you can see the videos for yourself. You can see the pictures that we’re discussing. It does help to see the visuals along with listening to what she’s saying, so I do highly encourage people to take a moment as they’re listening online to go to the website now to take a look at what we’re discussing and follow along.

Judy, when I saw these pictures of what you’re describing … I mean I listened to one of your lectures on YouTube first, and I couldn’t get what you were describing completely until I actually saw the pictures. So I wanted to interject here just for a moment to let people know that it is helpful to look at the images on your website as we discuss this.

Dr. Judy Wood :  Yeah, very good. Excellent. So if you go to, that’s the homepage. You’ll see a yellow block, which says Cliff Notes, or you can just type in, and that’s sort of one-stop shopping. You’ve got a whole lot of different categories, and some little guys waving that you show where the link is in each section that takes you to the index, so you can always get back to the index.

And if you go to Section H, “Fuzzballs,” Figure 62 shows just north of the WTC, just about a block north of the tower one, blue sky in the background. But if you start looking carefully, you see the fuzzballs around their feet, and the pictures just below that show these fuzzballs, the horrendously thick dust that could not have settled out of the air in 15 minutes.

Hillary Raimo:  We have a question that’s been submitted by a listener, Abraham, can you please ask Dr. Wood why she thinks so many people have a problem accepting the fact that steel and marble were transformed to fine dust on 9/11, when even the mainstream media, ABC News, has admitted to this fact. He then references a YouTube video.

He would also like to know when did you first learn of the University of Alaska magnetometer readings? He is referring to the iron-rich micro spheres in Hurricane Erin. We will be getting into that more later on in the hour. Thank you for your questions, Abraham. We appreciate them. Dr. Wood will address the hurricane and the weather disturbances associated with what she has found in her research and theories. For now, Dr. Wood why do you think people have had such a hard time accepting the fact that these buildings turned to dust?

Dr. Judy Wood :  A couple of reasons. One, it takes time to think about it themselves, so they’ll just grab onto what they’re fed. The other thing is it’s too scary. What happens if Dr. Wood is right? Ooh, you know? The implications, they get afraid, and that’s why I would like to remind folks that it has good things with it too. And if you look at it that way, it’s worth studying it.

But the dust is one of the most important aspects of this, the dust breaking down finer and finer. And then, studies show that the dust was so fine, it was approaching the scale of DNA. It was much finer than red blood cells, like a hundredth of the size of a red blood cell, so that was just being inhaled directly into people’s bloodstreams, making people very sick. This is not like anything we’ve seen before.

Hillary Raimo:  So are we looking at what is called free energy technology? Are we looking at examples of technology that’s obviously not mainstream being weaponized?

Dr. Judy Wood :  Yes, very much. There’s no way around that. You see an entire building, a 500,000-ton building in mid-flight turn into powder that’s microscopic. We’re not talking about a few pieces of microscopic dust. We’re talking about it’s not hitting anything. If you have a bomb in the building, it bombs buildings into chunks. The chunks go flying. They stay chunks until they hit something. So you see the chunks launched into flight, they stay in chunks, but this turned into powder as it traveled.

Hillary Raimo:  So as it moved away from the building, it became dust-like particles, is that what you’re saying? To somebody like myself, who doesn’t have a degree in physics or doesn’t understand the mechanics of what you’re describing, is that basically the picture that we’re getting? That as the material flew away from the building, it became finer dust particles?

Dr. Judy Wood :  Right. Think of a computer keyboard, like that’s flying through space, it breaks in half. Then, each of those halves break in half, and each of those quarters breaks in half. It’ll keep breaking it in two, finer and finer, and just keep on going down until you have nano-sized particles. The material is just dissociating, coming apart.

Hillary Raimo:  Do you believe this building would have fallen in the way that it fell structurally if hit by a plane?

Dr. Judy Wood :  If a plane hit the building, see, I’m not even making that assumption. Yeah, I’d say [inaudible 00:21:33] hole in it, but who knows how … We’re just going by it, one thing at a time. But if a plane had hit it, planes don’t take down buildings.

The building is also built like a tube within a tube, kind of like a tree. Trees have lots of rings around them. I’ve caught a lot of grief for saying this, but I still think it’s appropriate, talking about the Keebler Elves. They drilled a hole in the tree for the cookie oven and whatnot. You know, squirrels drill holes in trees, other things, and the tree doesn’t fall over.

Hillary Raimo:  So structurally, it’s not possible.

Dr. Judy Wood :  Correct, no. And here’s something that I think everyone can understand is they saw that the buildings remained standing. That shows that whatever happened to it, it didn’t cause them to fall down, and it wasn’t a high-wind day. Those buildings were built to handle up to category five hurricanes. They’re built to sway in the breeze. And think of a sponge, when it curls over, the inner side of the curve is in compression, and the outer side of the curve is in tension. So these buildings being built to bend over meant that they were designed to take many times the compressive load if that’s on the downwind side. In other words, they’re built to withstand … I’m just gonna guess, 20 times normal load, and it wasn’t windy, so those things were standing straight, so that’s already showing that they’re over-designed.

And also, buildings are designed with an importance factor, not just a safety factor. Safety factors take care of any statistical deviation from what [inaudible 00:23:39] properties are, and then some. But the importance factor is a multiplier on that, it’s how important it is for that building to stay standing if something happened. And if that building went, it would take out a lot of [inaudible 00:23:53] Manhattan. So you can bet that had a very high importance factor, that whatever circumstance, that building better remain standing, so it was well over-designed. Like if it was built out in the middle of an Iowa cornfield, if it went down, it’d just hurt the corn. If it was empty, you know, no people in it. It would just hurt the corn, so it would have a lower importance factor.

Hillary Raimo:  For those of you who may be just joining us, my guest tonight is Dr. Judy Wood. We’re discussing an alternative theory on 9/11, and what she believes is the use of free energy technology that has been weaponized. She is here with us tonight to describe the evidence to support that.

So far we’ve been discussing the midair pulverization of the buildings and how they were turned to dust before they hit the ground. Again, I would like to refer you back to her website,, to see the pictures for yourselves, to watch the footage, and make up your own mind and what you think.

I have to say, Judy, there are a lot of connected dots in your work. I really appreciate what you’re putting out there as far as what you’re talking about. Thank you. What about the underground mall that survived? Now, how would that be explained with what you’re discussing.

Dr. Judy Wood :  Well actually, it’s even more dramatic. I have an upcoming book, it’s soon to be out, like as we speak. And in there, there’s much clearer descriptions and very detailed descriptions of things, but that a picture of the mall and the floor right above it, and right below it. Right above it, you have a missing building. It’s gone. You can take a broom, and sweep it up almost. And the floor below that is a little bit caved in here and there, but people were walking straight up. You can read the names of the store signs. You know where you are in the mall. And the floor below that, the loading docks don’t look like anything happened. It’s completely intact.

Hillary Raimo:  Now, on your website, you give out these facts and you say that the upper 80% approximately of each tower was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth, and that the upper 90% approximately of the inside of World Trade Center 7 was turned into fine dust, and did not crash to the earth.

It is common sense that the top isn’t supposed to be turning into dust before it hits the bottom, yes? Usually, the heavier stuff is coming down and crushing the things underneath it. Is this evidence to support that this was free energy technology?

Dr. Judy Wood: Well, the evidence goes on and on, it’s kind of overwhelming actually. But one of the biggest aha moments, I call it, that Cliff Notes page started out being a listing of my aha moments. With these cars that were found over in FDR Drive, or actually under FDR Drive, about a half mile away, that were toasted in weird ways. This one car that looks like the backend just had a new wax job, and just came off the showroom floor. The front end is completely toasted, holes eaten through the metal. Very dramatic difference, like black and white.

On the right hand side of the car, the passenger side, the front door is completely toasted, the back door is pushed in. There’s an abrupt line, and I kind of wondered, they have rubber gaskets, the front from the back. On the other side of the car, there’s the back door is toasted but except for a circular spot that’s in pristine condition. I call it the wax spot. It’s a circular spot. On that boundary, one nanometer, one side, it’s toasted. One nanometer to the other side, [inaudible 00:28:38] a millimeter, is not toasted. Fire does not do that.

Hillary Raimo:  So we’re looking at a disturbance of elements so-to-speak, something that would disrupt the normal physics of what we would expect to see?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Yes, yes. It’s a different kind of action that we’re familiar with it, but we just don’t know it. It’s a type of interference.

Hillary Raimo:  Interference with what exactly?

Dr. Judy Wood: Different kinds of energy waves. My background being in optical interference allowed me to have a mental model of interference that was a direct analogy. And after I’d tabulated all of the evidence, I was looking at something and ended up on someone’s blog, and found all of these photos of all of the various phenomena that I had seen at the WTC, but they had produced like on their kitchen table. That was John Hutchinson. He had demonstrated the same thing.

How he does it is interfere a radio frequency signal within a static field. He, first, used the Tesla coil, and then later used a Van de Graaff generator. So if you have a static field and then interfere in that, a radio frequency signal, weird things happen. It isn’t just like adding the two together, it’s like what I like to say, you can get into a house. A burglar can get in, in a couple of different ways. They can take a bulldozer and plow down the front door, or somebody could pull out a key and open the door. This is like a key that opens the door to this extraordinary energy.

Hillary Raimo:  I witnessed a gold wedding ring embedded into a steel beam in perfect form on the 911 site. I could never understand how that ring was able to do that without melting in the force of the fire and destruction. I wish I had gotten a picture of it because it was just so mindboggling. But I was so consumed with the emotional impact of standing where I was standing, but that just didn’t add up or make any sense. You can’t have a gold wedding ring embedded into a steel beam perfectly without losing any of its shape.

Dr. Judy Wood: On my Cliff Notes page, if you go down to Section U, the “Hutchison Effect,” you’ll see photos, Figure 142, 143, 144. Well, 142 and 143 are a piece of wood that’s embedded in aluminum. The wood didn’t burn up. Aluminum melts at 660 degrees Centigrade. Wood would pretty well be toast by then. And then, you have a copper penny that’s embedded in the aluminum. How the wood got in the aluminum, the aluminum was sitting on a wooden piece of plywood and they just mushed into each other during one of Hutchinson’s test.

Now, here’s another interesting thing. I kind of jumped the gun here, but talking about weather events. You ever see a piece of straw through a tree, through the bark in a tree?

Hillary Raimo:  No, but I have seen some very interesting pictures on your website of wood boards, basically impaled into the center of a palm tree, which I’ve never seen before. As we’re talking, I’m looking at pictures of the penny in the aluminum,

Which is exactly how I saw the gold ring. I’m finding all of this pretty fascinating. And like I said, you really just can’t look at these pictures and ignore the fact that there is something extraordinarily odd going on here. This is not something we’re taught. This is not based on the physics we’re taught in school, necessarily, and to be honest with you, it’s disturbing to me that this is evidence that you have on here, that nobody’s looking at it. Nobody’s saying, wow, this is really odd. You know, something doesn’t make sense, not with what you’re presenting, but with the actual story of what’s happened, or the actual reality that we believe around what happened. So looking at this wood in this tree, it’s just a fascinating picture (image on website). So describe to me, what’s going on here?

Dr. Judy Wood:  It’s from Hurricane Andrew. The two by four in the tree, and the plywood in the tree.

Hillary Raimo:  And how are Hurricane Andrew and 9/11 connected?

Dr. Judy Wood:   Well, it got my thinking of similarities and I just look at where the data tells me to go. Again, it’s [inaudible 00:34:30] puts it out of your mind because it’ll bias your thinking. Just look at it and try to figure out that you need to know what went on, and look at it from that perspective.

So I was looking at this dust that goes up, that was very revealing. Also, I’d been set up in a show where the interviewer was trying to prove to me, and get me to say that all the dust went down. He was trying so hard that it was clear to me this guy knew what happened and needed to cover that up, but he was kind of green at it and he ended up (inaudible 00:35:09] But that’s what they needed to cover up, so I decided to go look at the dust, and how it went up.

So hm, they have satellite images of it going up, and let’s see how far up I can get pictures. And if I look at weather satellite images, maybe I can see how far it … What is that? It’s a hurricane. You know, right outside of New York City on 9/11. And then, I got to thinking, what do hurricanes do? I’m not concluding why it’s there, but it was there. That’s a fact.

So what do hurricanes do? Well, let’s start looking into it, and then I found the two by four in the tree. I think we’ve all heard the stories about the straw on the tree. The straw must be going so fast, it goes through a tree. It didn’t make sense. The straw can’t do battle with a tree under normal circumstances.

Hillary Raimo:  Right.

Dr. Judy Wood:  And then, you get some strange things. Okay, so started looking at weird weather anomalies. You have cars sitting on telephone poles from tornadoes, from hurricanes. You get weird field effects. Birds know to leave town when they sense a hurricane is coming. They can feel it. Some people claim they can feel the storm coming. It’s a different electrical energy in it. And also, look at the shape of a hurricane. It’s twirling around the top, a spinning stem, kind of like a big Tesla coil.

Hillary Raimo:  Hm.

Dr. Judy Wood:  It operates the same way, and you get lightning coming off of it. From the top to the ground, you have a different electrical potential there.

Hillary Raimo:  Tell us more about the Hutchinson effect that you described, are we talking about the use of frequencies to manipulate material?

Dr. Judy Wood:  It’s not so much frequency, it’s an interference type of effect. It’s interferometry. It’s a radio frequency signal interfering in the static field.

Hillary Raimo:  So it’s a radio wave interfering with the electromagnetic field of something, correct?

Dr. Judy Wood: Yes like from a Van de Graaff generator or a Tesla coil.

Hillary Raimo:  Okay. So we’re talking about manipulation of electromagnetic fields. We’re talking about the use of frequencies, and it sounds like some alternative technologies that have been discussed in the alternative media world, floating around the internet and making a splash in certain subcultures. Are we actually looking at an obvious example of this technology being weaponized?

Dr. Judy Wood: Let me make something clear. John Hutchinson enjoys playing with nature. Nature being this interaction, and can fiddle around and make this happen. He has no intention, whatsoever of using it as a weapon.

Hillary Raimo: Because the free energy technology can be used to make free energy. Clean environmentally friendly energy for everyone on the planet.

Dr. Judy Wood: Right.

Hillary Raimo:  There’s a tremendous positive change opportunity with this technology. But will the fossil fuel military industrial complex allow it to come out and be used for good when it means losing lots of money and control?

Dr. Judy Wood:  And he who controls the energy, controls the people.

Hillary Raimo:  Yes. Question is who controls the technology now?

Dr. Judy Wood: Yeah. I guess what I’m getting at is that it isn’t my position that John Hutchinson’s work was weaponized. It’s my position that this technology has been around for a century, at least. Tesla had this and John Hutchinson is just replicating some of the work of Tesla, but he is doing it, here and now, and you can go watch.

Hillary Raimo:  Yes.

Dr. Judy Wood: You don’t have to read about it in a book, or a hypothesis, or theories, or something. You can actually see it for yourself.

Hillary Raimo:  You are very clearly looking at the evidence, and making conclusions based on what you see and comparing it to your area of expertise.

Dr. Judy Wood:  I want to add something about Tesla. Tesla, in a recent document that was recently declassified, Tesla had apparently, I think it was 1926, had proposed to Congress that if they built towers around the entire perimeter of this country, every 200 miles or so, he would install a little box on each one that would establish a vertical plane through which anything that passed would “dematerialize.”

Hillary Raimo:  When was that?

Dr. Judy Wood: 1926, I think.

Hillary Raimo:  1926. So in 1926, we had the capability of disintegrating planes in midair?

Dr. Judy Wood: Yes.

Hillary Raimo:  Wow. I mean if that doesn’t make everybody listening to this show just pause and contemplate the reality of what that means, if we were at that level of technology back in the 1920’s, where do you possibly imagine we are going into 2011? It just blows my mind. Most have no clue about what’s happening in this world, would you agree?

Dr. Judy Wood:  Oh, very much, very much. We’re cave men, by comparison. The technology is what we know and what is actually out there. And John Hutchinson, again, has demonstrated that issue that doing a remake of the Arc and Covenant. I think it’s been around for centuries, but it stays suppressed.

One thing that I found quite interesting is that Tesla is credited for developing alternating current, hydroelectric power plants, and that’s why he’s the father of the Industrial Revolution. But what is so interesting is called [inaudible 00:43:53], Toledo Edison, Ohio Edison, Southern California Edison, not anything to do with Tesla, even though it’s alternating current that’s being sold, and Edison was about direct current.

Hillary Raimo:  Would this technology we are discussing be able to produce the kind of disintegration at the top of the towers as you described earlier?

Dr. Judy Wood: Oh, yes. Yeah, for sure, easily. Easily, and we have evidence of that, that everyone is familiar with it. I became familiar with it when I was a little tyke at around 10 years old, or so, Topeka, Kansas. Our family drove through Topeka the morning after they had that horrendous tornado that destroyed a large portion of the city. It still may be to date, the highest dollar value destruction from a tornado, it’s definitely one of those, of all time. This humongous tornado just destroyed everything in its path, and for several miles.

What I’ll remember that I’ll never forget is this bed with a white bedspread. The bed was made, it had some magazines on the bedspread. It had some books on the dresser, clothes were hanging in the closet. It was not in disarray. This apartment building was sliced down the middle with half the building just missing, and the other half, it wasn’t like a big wind had blown through there. These magazines were sitting there, the bed was made. And certainly, with a half a building, people aren’t going to get in there and make the bed.

I saw the same thing in building four. The main of building four went missing, and it’s only the north wing that remains, sliced up with an X-ACTO Knife, or so it appears. It just reminded me of that room in 1966, where the tornado went through. When people say there wasn’t enough energy to destroy the building, that’s the funniest statement because the building’s gone, so obviously there’s enough, so we need to figure out how it happened. But where does the energy come from for a tornado? Folks say, oh, you didn’t do calculations, so you don’t know if it’s true or not. Well, do you sit and do calculations to determine whether or not that was a tornado? You see a tornado come and go, and then it’s nothing. It’s passed. The energy comes from somewhere. It’s a natural force unlocked.

Hillary Raimo:  How was the technology delivered on 9/11?

Dr. Judy Wood: I don’t like to speculate. I can just say it has all of the parallels with this phenomena. The [inaudible 00:47:05], the round holes in the windows. The double-paned glass, the outer window has a role in it, and the inner pain is still intact. So what lifted the cars up, and didn’t take the leaves off the trees? And it’s also non self-quenching, it continues on. I was there in 2007 and 2008, in the grounds. You were mentioning all the stuff that was hauled off from there?

Hillary Raimo:  Yes.

Dr. Judy Wood:  More was hauled in than was hauled away. I’ve got pictures over there where the dirt pile gets taller. They’re bringing in dirt, and dumping it on the site, stirring it around, and hauling it back out, and the dirt was fuming. It could be saturated with water, but there’s these fumes coming up from the dirty.

Hillary Raimo:  This just strips away everything we are told to believe about the official story.

Dr. Judy Wood: Right, and that’s the key. It’s like the quote my roommate had on her poster in my dorm room, see the world as a child sees it, with wonder, and with hope. And forget about everything you’ve been taught, and just look, what do you see? Not what you’ve been taught to see, and you start seeing a whole new world of things.

Hillary Raimo:  We only have about four minutes left in this show, and I still have questions for you. I would like to invite you to come back and do a part two, and discuss some of the specific details of what you have shared today.

Let’s talk more about the weather connection. Now, I know we kind of touched based on that in the past hour briefly, but do you feel that this technology produces weather anomalies?

Dr. Judy Wood:  It’s all connected. There’s also other interesting details with it, such as a sudden shift in the Earth’s magnetic field with each one of the events happening that day, which is another interesting anomaly. The plot thickens. And it also coincides with the path of the hurricane.

Hillary Raimo:  Sudden shifts in the Earths magnetic fields that day. We need to discuss that in more depth. How about the steel columns, the main structures of the buildings, wrapped up like carpets? They didn’t just melt and fall to pieces. You have pictures here of the steel columns being twisted into weird sculpture-like looking pieces. It’s really bizarre. How did that happen?

Dr. Judy Wood: They’re wrapped around the vertical axis, not the horizontal axis. If something was buckling, it would bend around the horizontal axis, that’s the crazy part.

Hillary Raimo:  Some may not understand the physics of it all. You have live footage on your website of the dust, it just goes poof at the top, and falls. And then all of a sudden, you have all these tremendous anomalies in the structural elements of the buildings that just don’t make any sense. And if I hadn’t known to look for that, I wouldn’t have seen that, and I think many people are not qualified to look for that. They are not even aware to look for that. They don’t even understand the structural components to things like that because the physics we’re dealing with is not the physics that we’re taught in high school, correct?

Dr. Judy Wood: Correct. And my background is in observing the evidence, that’s my strength. And so even before I had figured out what happened, the handlers of the coverup knew I’d figured it out.

Hillary Raimo:  Fascinating. Now, do offer a free book online that discusses this. Is this going to be the same book that you’re coming out with, or is it something different?

Dr. Judy Wood: The free book is one by Andrew Johnson. My book will be available in hard copy only. It’s kind of like a textbook. But if anyone reads it … And you don’t need to have a science background to read it. My father, whose background is in political science and education, not engineering or any kind of physical science, read it, no problem. And it was interesting, watching the transitions as he went through, and the realization.

Hillary Raimo:  Now, out of curiosity, Judy, because we’re running out of time…

Dr. Judy Wood: Yes?

Hillary Raimo: Did you publish this through mainstream publishing, or did you have to fund this yourself?

Dr. Judy Wood: I had to fund it myself. I was contracted with a publisher, and the publisher wouldn’t publish it.

Hillary Raimo:  What a conspiracy. Get a copy of the book, guys. Read it, look at the pictures yourself. Thank Dr. Judy Wood it’s been a pleasure.

Dr. Judy Wood; Thank you so much for having me, and thank you so much for educating your listeners.


Dr. Judy Wood Part 1 Transcript 
Buy Judy’s Book

Dr. Judy Wood’s Website  

What are non lethal /directed energy weapons?

Free energy technology suppression  

How real researchers are discredited as conspiracy theorists 

What is the military industrial complex? 

Copyright 2017 and beyond all rights reserved. No part of this transcription may be used without permission

David Icke, The Perception Deception, Hillary Raimo Show Transcripts

Originally recorded live in 2010 on The Hillary Raimo Show hosted by Achieve Radio. This transcript is dedicated to Susan Maguire, a long time friend and sister who traveled through David’s work with me in the early 2000’s who passed away this year (2017) from breast cancer. May your next great adventure hold you in starry bliss sister. I miss you and our many conversations over the years. 


Hillary Raimo:  David Icke and his research discusses a fantastic web of global manipulation, orchestrated by things beyond this physical realm. His work exposes the hidden bloodlines, through which other-dimensional entities live and operate unseen among us; and he shows how the bloodlines of the royal, political, and economic rulers of today are the same as those who ruled as the kings and queens of ancient times. Welcome David, thanks so much for joining me.

David Icke:  Pleasure Hillary.

Hillary Raimo:  What is your take on what is happening on the world stage right now?

David Icke:  Well, I’ve been writing for 20 years about something I call the truth vibrations. The truth vibrations was funnily enough the name of the first book I ever wrote so after I started to awaken myself in 1990. What I learned two decades ago was that a vibrational change was coming, which was going to increasingly act like a spiritual alarm clock and wake people up from their coma, from their deep sleep that we’ve been in. The more that I’ve understood this as the years passed, what is happening is that we are at the cusp of an epoch change. In my new book, Human Race Get Off Your Knees, I go into the fact that this is reality, it goes through a cycle and that cycle is dictated by a vibrational cycle that comes out of the black holes.

In our case, the black hole at the center of this galaxy, which scientists are now identifying and it is suggested there’s one in the center of every galaxy, but it’s a vibrational cycle. As the vibrational change happens, it elicits different information in the form of photon energy coming from the suns and we decode this through what I call the body computer. We’ve discussed this before in this reality that we are experiencing and you can liken it, not just symbolically, but in very many ways in actual terms to the wireless internet. I’m sitting in a room now and if it had the wireless internet, I could look around and I would not see it. It would just be a room to me and just what appears to be empty space.

If I turn on a computer out of the ether, out of the unseen without any wire connections or anything, I can pull a whole collective reality out of that wireless internet, that unseen realm onto a screen. What we’re doing through what I call the body computer, the biological body computer system in the sense that it has the ability to assess information and make decisions for itself, not just react to the way it’s programmed, I mean I’m sitting here now, you’re sitting in there now, everyone’s listening to this program sitting or wherever they are, and their immune system is working and making decisions constantly on how to react to this situation or that situation or that potential threat or whatever.

You’re not aware of that, I’m not aware of that, we’re just chatting. There’s a heck of a lot going on within the body computer system that we are simply not aware of but it is actually up to its own level of awareness making decisions based on the information that it’s receiving. What is happening is the human body computer is decoding this photon information and it’s turning it from the vibrational into the electrical, into the digital, and finally into the holographic, and it’s the holographic reality that we experience what we call the physical world. Now this vibration, which changes over a period of time or what we call time is in effect creating what I’ve called in my books before the time loop.

One of my books is called Tales from the Time Loop where you start at a certain point and then you go round, and then you basically come back to the same point, not in every detail but in theme. It’s not actually a time loop because there is no time. What we call time and space are information constructs that we decode through the body computer into the illusion of time and space. This vibration is happening in what we call the now, this only moment that exists. As it changes as it moves through its cycle, it appears because of the way we decode reality, it appears to change and it appears to go through presence of future in this time loop. What it actually is, is a vibration in the now that just goes through a cycle.

It’s not going through a period of time at all, it’s only illusion. Anyway, the point is that there are certain points in this cycle, which in Asia and the Ancient Indian world they call YUGAs. We note the Mayan concepts of cycles of time and it’s something that appears in all the ancient cultures, this concept of going through a loop, of going through a time loop, a time period and then coming back to the start. We’re at the point now where the cusp is between a period of what people would call a dark period of suppression, of the limitation or sense of limitation.

That’s what it is, and we’re now at the cusp of a massive fundamental change to a period in this cycle, which is about expansion of consciousness, the end of limitation and the opening of massively greater potential for creation, self-creation, and the ability to manifest whatever you want to manifest. At this point now and what I call the truth vibrations are this new energetic change moving in and it’s changing the information, but we’re receiving and therefore and those that are starting to tune into this and more and more people are, they start to dramatically in many cases now change their perception of the world, their sense of reality, who they are, what they are, the nature of their own possibility.

This is what is happening now and of course some people are still closed. Most people at this minute are still closed and shutting off from this new vibe, this vibrational change, these truth vibrations and they’re clinging onto the old epoch, the old energy. The control system that I’ve been writing about and exposing all these years, it’s a manifestation of that previous epoch, the dying epoch, one of control and suppression and imposition and limitation. We look at the control system now and I understand why. My goodness me I do and for a few years it’s going to still look like this, that it’s actually gaining more and more and more power, and more and more and more control, and more and more domination.

What we’re seeing I would suggest is the last desperate throw of the dice, the last desperate attempt to hold on to the control that it has had. Because the truth vibrations are coming in, because people are starting to awaken, because people are being affected more and more by this vibrational change, at this cusp of YUGA change if you like, they are having to throw more and more efforts to keep us in the state of suppression that we were before and thus, it is becoming more and more obvious to people that there is a control system going on because it’s becoming more blatant as they throw more and more things at us.

In the next few years, it’s going to seem that everything is lost, that the control system can’t be stopped and all the rest of it, but there’s going to come a point in a few years, not a few decades, where that cusp point, that tipping point comes where the new energetic epoch, the truth vibrations become the dominant information force in this reality. At that point, the control system will start to lose its power very, very rapidly and eventually collapse.

Hillary Raimo:  David, I have to ask you this question. In exposing all that you do about the elite power structures that run the current global world, how are you still alive?

David Icke:  Well, I’ve been asked this question many, many, many times over the years and it’s even got to the point sometimes Hillary where I’ve seen myself on a “blacklist” as a dis-informer because if what he was saying was true, he’d be dead and alongside me are listed people who’ve died, who’d been putting out certain types of information. My response to that is well, let’s all line up now, put our hands out for the handcuffs and our ankles out for the ball and chain because what you’re telling me there for, and I’m talking about the people who say that is that we’re doomed because anyone that speaks out and has anything valid to say is going to be taken out.

Indeed being taken out is their license to credibility, and so what’s the point? Let’s just all line up and walk in the prison camp and just accept it. Now what I’m saying is that we create our own reality and we are decoding a collective reality from the unseen like I say the cosmic internet as I call it, the equivalent of the wireless internet, but just as you go online and we can go to the same websites, we’ll see the same graphics, we’ll see the same words, we’ll see the same colors, we’ll see the same pictures because we’re experiencing a collective reality. We won’t all have an opinion, a reaction, or a response to what we see that’s the same.

That’s where we as unique expressions of it infinite consciousness put our own spin on reality and where I’m coming from is that there are forces at work, which are expressions of these truth vibrations, and there are large numbers of them and more and more all the time who are beyond the ability of the control system to take them out because if I do not let the fact that I could be taken out into my reality, I cannot decode it into physical experience. I can’t do that. I’ll tell you an interesting story. What I think is interesting. When I first came to America in 1996 , what I did was met a lot of whistleblowers and I saw a lot of whistleblowers from government and other areas speaking.

What I saw again and again, not in every case but a significant number, were people wearing the attacks upon them as like a war medal. I’ll tell you even another. I won’t mention his name, but I was in someone’s house one day back in 1996. It was up in New England and I was waiting to talk in that person’s house. That’s how big the audiences were that time for this information. He went out and I put a video in and I saw this man talking. He was saying some very, very interesting things, but he kept repeating, “I don’t know how long they’re going to let me keep saying this. I don’t know how long that I can keep saying this before they take me out.”

I sat there that day Hillary and I thought you want to be careful mate because you’re going to be a self-fulfilling prophecy if you’re not careful. The guy came back home and I said, “Oh that’s a very interesting video, a lot of interesting things to say.” I say, “What’s happened to Disco? Where is he now?” He said, “He’s dead. He was murdered.” I thought well to be honest I’m actually not surprised because we either manifest our power here or we run around posturing our inability to continue to do it as for as long as we want as some kind of confirmation that we’re speaking the truth. I mean it’s like going round and round and round in circles and I just wake up every day.

I’m doing this 12 hours a day after day after day, and I will till I keel over it’s my life, it’s my passion, it’s the only thing I’m interested in doing. I put one foot in front of the other and what tends to happen is you get somewhere. Now I’ve had a number of efforts to undermine me financially, people being put in my life to undermine me. In fact, the people that have caused me most at my work, my health, and everything, most difficulty, most stress, and been the biggest challenges have been people who have expressed their love and support for me more than anybody else.

There are many, many different ways to undermine someone or attempt to without actually pulling a trigger, but what you do is no matter what is thrown at you, you get up off the floor, you brush yourself down, and you carry on. When you do that, when you keep being the rubber ball who you can undermine, you can cause stress for, you can cause difficulties for, and all the rest of it, but the rubber ball keeps bouncing. It’s not that I’ve had 20 years where I’ve just been left alone. I mean I’ve gone through the most extraordinary gathering levels of ridicule and abuse in this country, Britain particularly.

I’ve had efforts to undermine me all over the place, but what you do is you get up, you brush yourself down, and you start all over again. When you do that, you cannot be stopped.

Hillary Raimo:  David, there’s some proof out there that there are electromagnetic weapons, things that can interfere with people’s consciousness, their electromagnetic field as a form of stopping people, making them sick, giving them cancer, those kinds of things. What’s your take on that?

David Icke:  I think there’s no question that’s true. Yes. I mean I’ve gone through some electromagnetic attacks myself that have actually pretty much stopped now interestingly enough. Around the end of 2009 right around January and February, every night, I would virtually every night I would wake up and there would be these tremendous electromagnetic fields in the bedroom. They sometimes look like spider metallic like spider things and all the rest of it, but it wasn’t that you could just see them, you could feel them very powerfully too. I remember one night they were disrupting my sleep so much that I got up out the bedroom and I walked into my lounge.

I’d lay on the sofa and I fell asleep there, and I woke up again and I looked across at the television set and it was this like … You know Catherine wheels, these fireworks Catherine wheels?

Hillary Raimo:  Yes.

David Icke:  There was a spinning kind of Catherine wheel of sort … It wasn’t colored energy and it was spinning with extraordinary speed and in the middle was again a metallic spider-like thing going out, like a core of it. I watched it. It wasn’t that it was just there for a few seconds and then went. I watched it for about minute, minute and a half, and then I got up and I thought I’m going to see what is going on. I walk towards it and as I walked very close towards it, it had gone. This went on for weeks and weeks and weeks, and then just suddenly stopped. I have it kind of maybe two or three times a month now, but nothing like as intense as I did then. What that was all about I have no idea.

That at the time when I was going through that experience, it was disrupting my health, my rheumatoid arthritis, which is not good at the best of times. It was very, very bad then and I had one or two other health situations. Again, I’ll be honest, what I used to do, I used to wake up, turnover, see all this metallic electromagnetic stuff around me and I would shall I say give it the finger, and then I would turn over and go back to sleep. It was quite funny because instead of all they’re out to get me or whatever, it’s like okay, whatever, whatever, whatever, throw anything at me, I’m not bothered because I’m ok.

Hillary Raimo:  Do you think the fear equation is also included in this? because if you’re afraid that they can get you, then that changes the whole game, doesn’t it?

David Icke:  Well, that’s a very important point because what we’re dealing with here is frequencies that are either compatible or not compatible. If someone is vibrating to the frequency of radio one, when radio two tries to attack it, it can’t do it, you can’t do it because radio one or radio two are on different frequencies. Of course the base frequency of the control system is fear, it’s low vibrational emotion.

An interesting thing that I’ve noticed in my life over the years is one of the ways that the attempt has been to undermine me and it’s going on at this time funnily enough, not that it will work, is to create situations and people around me that will pull me in to that low vibrational emotional state because once you’ve pulled into that, you’re actually thinking with the vibrational frequency of the control system, and then they can start to make an impact upon you. If you can stay outside of that, then you’re vibrating at one frequency, the control system is vibrating at another, never the twain shall meet. This is why it’s so important and I’m speaking to myself here as I say this.

I’m not the guru, Buddha sitting on a mounting cross leg saying this is what you must do, I’ve softened it. We’re all in this and we’re all kind of working to get ourselves in a certain state me included. When you’re aware of it, it makes it more easier and what we need to do is to just hold this understanding that we are infinite consciousness, having an experience. We’re not the experience. I’m not David Icke. David likes my experience. I’m infinite consciousness having an experience as David Icke. When you come from that perspective, it helps you hold perspective on the experiences that we have.

Instead of being pulled into them so that you are the experience as well as having the experience, which means that you’re pulled into a vibrational state where if it’s an unpleasant experience in a stressful and fearful experience, well then you’re being pulled into the stadium in which the control system plays at home. It’s important that we hold this understanding and it’s a real challenge because all the five sense influences are telling us that you are David Icke, you were born in Leicester in 1952 and you are just one person, just Joe public, you have no power.

If we can resist getting pulled into that to realize the reflection in the mirror is the reflection of the experience, it’s not a reflection of who we are but you can see who we are through the eyes often, then you’re in this world as I’ve said many times before. You’re in this world having any experience, but of this world in the point of that you’re perceiving the experience, and that can have a very powerful impact on not getting pulled in to interfere and stress and all the rest of it, which allows you to enter the control systems stadium, which it wants everybody.

That’s why it’s created a society, which is there to generate maximum fear, maximum worry, maximum anxiety, maximum conflict is because they want us in a certain vibrational frequency range because that’s the one that they can lock into us through.

Hillary Raimo:  Thank you. In your work you described how the New Age movement is manipulated towards a new world order with the ‘we are all one’ motto. Can you explain that for those listening how that’s being done now?

David Icke:  Well, I looked at the New Age movement a lot when I first started to awaken because it was my first port of call when I was trying to get an understanding of what the heck was happening to me 20 years ago. I’ve observed it and I don’t want to sit here now and say the New Age is a load of rubbish and all the people in it rub it. No, I’m not saying that. There are some wonderful, wonderful people that are operating what people would call the New Age movement and enormous numbers of genuine people. What I’m saying is that there are elements of it and I would say significant elements of it that I think they’ve rejected religion in general but have actually just accepted another one.

If you give your power away Christian heroes or Jewish heroes or Muslim heroes, that’s considered by many people in the new age as absolutely wrong, you must take the power back, you must be in your own power, you must create your own reality, you must express your uniqueness. I agree with all of that, but then I see for instance you can go to Sedona, you can go to Glastonbury, or you can go to India as I did a couple of years ago, and you can see a new age from yards by what they’re wearing. Then I’ve been into these ashrams in India and I’ve seen new age people going through religious rituals that are absolutely straight out of Hinduism and Islam and Judaism and Christianity in the way that they’re performed.

I see people wearing the same type of clothes. I see people having their own kind of heroes or divine figures to give their power away to. I mean it used to be a star commander for some people a long time ago or it’s Sunanda or it’s the great white brotherhood. For me, there was a great song years ago. It wasn’t actually a great song, but the theme was. It was by a guy called Val Doonican, an Irish singer when I was a kid and it said walk tall, walk straight, and look the world right in the eye.

That’s what my mom had told me when I was about knee-high, and if we are infinite consciousness and we are expressions of the infinite one, then we should be looking each other in the eye, oh yes respects other aspects of consciousness for what they’re doing, what they stand for, what they’re expressing, yes good, but don’t get a crick in the neck looking up because you are them, they are you, I am you, you are me. I still see hierarchical structures big time often within the New Age movement and a hierarchy is illusion. Hierarchy is the control system. We cannot have a situation of hierarchy and then claim that everyone is an expression of the one.

We either are or we’re not and because hierarchies are the way that the control system imposes itself in so many ways because hierarchies are the few dictating to the many. That can be a few bankers dictating to the entire banking system, a few politicians dictating to an entire nation, or it can be a few heroes in the new age dictating or allowing people, allowing them to be themselves to be taken to when they are the vast majority. As for me, these blueprints structures of the control system you find them everywhere if you look for them and hierarchy is the old limitation. I’m above you, you’re above me, I know my place. That’s the old epoch, that’s what’s coming down.

The pyramids of power, they’re coming down because that’s an expression of the old energy. It’s a shame that so much of the new age or significant sways of it anyway are still into hierarchies. It’s not the way it is. I would suggest anyway, but everyone must believe what they want to believe of course.

Hillary Raimo:  Let’s talk about the alien agenda. What is your take on this whole good, bad, us versus them kind of thing? Are the ETs good, are they bad? What do we believe? There’s so much conflicting information out there.

David Icke:  Well, Hillary I don’t see things in terms of good or bad. I see things in terms of conscious and unconscious. There are conscious human beings, there are unconscious human beings and it takes you about 30 seconds to see the difference if you’re in their presence. Because everything is an expression of this one infinite awareness, this all possibility that I call it, then if you are dealing with an infinite all possibility, then all possibility must be able to manifest. I mean the two go together, so therefore anything is possible. When you’re dealing with non-human entities or non-human expressions of awareness, then you must of course have the great tapestry, the great spectrum of possibility among them.

There are non-human entities that let’s call them ETs for simplicity that are conscious and they will have a benevolent supportive view of humanity. Indeed, they will have a benevolent supportive view of all existence. You will have other ETS that are not conscious and probably not terribly bright. You’ll have other ETs, which is what I would suggest we’re dealing with in terms of the control system who are not conscious in terms of infinite consciousness because anything that is conscious does not want control over. It does not want to impose its will upon, but they are extremely technologically advanced compared with humans at this point.

They are shall we say clever because they have this intellectual advanced state of mind, but they are not wise in the sense that they are conscious and when you have a technological possibility coming from a developed intellect, a developed mind but you do not have that balanced by consciousness wisdom, then you can get yourself into a very destructive situation because I’ve said in my books all 20 years ago nearly, cleverness without wisdom is the most destructive force on earth. It’s very clever to understand how to make an atomic bomb, but it’s not wise to do it and this is the difference between the two.

What we’re dealing with I would suggest Hillary with it in terms of the control system is extraterrestrials or not even extraterrestrials, I call them other dimensionals that are advanced intellectually ,therefore very technologically advanced compared with us. They have an understanding of how to manipulate energy as part of that intellectual understanding of the way reality works, but they do not have the open consciousness, the connection to the greater awareness to balance that understanding and use it in a compassionate, loving, balanced way. For instance, the same technology that can cause great destruction can give people free energy indefinitely, no utility bills, none of it. It’s like a microphone.

Microphone is not negative or positive. It’s how you use it there’s negative or positive, and this intellectually dominated extraterrestrial group, which I feel overwhelmingly takes a reptilian form, this is the mentality behind what we call the illuminati, these bloodlines, which are hybrid interbred blood lines, which acts as vehicles within this reality you might call visible light for the reptilian and other “demonic type entities” operating outside of this reality to actually manipulate this reality. It’s like when you see scientists who are working with material that is dangerous, you’ll see the material in a tank and you’ll see the scientist on the outside of the tank, and then he puts his hands through these gloves that go inside the tank and then he can work the material.

Now he’s outside the tank. What is manipulating is inside the tank and if you take that symbol, that analogy, that’s basically what we looking at I would suggest after two decades researching this around the world in terms of the control system. These bloodlines are like the gloves, they’re in the tank. They are the vehicle within this reality that allows these entities operating just outside of this reality to manipulate through them into this world. The reason they’re so obsessed with interbreeding and holding a certain genetic DNA state is because everything in this reality when you come down to it, whether it looks just like a solid wall or its DNA or a glass of beer, its base state is vibrational wave form.

That’s where the information is that we decode into what we see as physical objects, so therefore DNA is in its base form a vibrational field. Now if you are wishing to “possess” another body if you like and take over its mental and emotional faculties, then the closer your vibrational state is to it, the more influenced you’re going to have over its mental and emotional state and so they interbred with humanity. They’re probably still doing it, no doubt, they are to create a hybrid bloodline and the hybrid bloodline is quite simply a hybrid vibrational field, which allows them to lock into it much more powerfully than the general run of the human population, which is not as vibrationally compatible to them as the hybrid bloodlines that they have created and they perpetuate through fierce interbreeding.

This is the reason that the aristocracy, for instance, and royalty of not just Europe but the world have been incessantly interbred over the years with each other. It’s not right snobbery just to keep the genes up. Yet, it is to keep the genes up. It’s to keep a certain genetic state, like a computer software program. This is why the eastern establishment families of the United States incessantly interbred. It’s because they’re trying to hold this vibrational field, which will be diluted very, very fast if it’s interbred with people that are not compatible with it.

Hillary Raimo:  David if somebody is compatible with that kind of vibration and they are a hybrid, is it possible for them to overcome that strong kind of controlling energy that can attach to them? Can they evolve past that?

David Icke:  Absolutely, they can. It’s called consciousness. See, I’ve got a computer in front of me now and if I go to my documents, there are files below all over it. Within the DNA are endless files, information files, experience files, programmed behavior files all over it but just as with my documents, if I don’t open the file and put it on the screen, it’s not going to influence the reality of the computer. It’s just going to sit there in a dormant state. What these people do, and this is again one of the key reasons that they bring their children up in a certain way and one of the ways they bring them up is overwhelmingly with no human parental child bonding, with no love, with no warmth.

I mean people have noted over the years the lack of warmth between each other of the House of Windsor, the British royal family. I mean I saw this extraordinary black and white film the other day where the queen is walking off a plane back in the days of black and white. She’s been to an overseas visit with Prince Philip the chap. They walked down the steps and there’s a line of dignitaries at Heathrow Airport waiting to meet them and she goes along and she’s going hello, hello, to these dark suits, hello mom and bowing their heads. Then there’s a gap and then you see what the gap is, and it’s the fact that there’s not a man standing there in line, it’s Prince Charles who’s a little boy.

He’s coming in line with the dignitaries. He puts his hand out to his mother and shakes hands like the other dignitaries, and she goes on to the next one. Now that’s part of the way that these people are brought up. They’re also sent to what we call in Britain public schools, but they’re actually private schools, fee-paying schools. You have different name for them in America, same thing and they go to these schools where they are brought up and looked after for want of a term in a certain way, and then there’s the other thing. They’re eventually put through rituals and these rituals are designed specifically to create vibrational fields that open the files to the deeper levels of this hybrid state, to open the deeper levels of the hybrid program.

As these files open, these kids start to change in terms of their attitude to life themselves and the world because the program has been activated, and it starts to influence their sense of self and reality more and more powerfully. When you are conscious, when you allow consciousness in, it can override any of these programs. I’ve met people from these bloodlines who are lovely people, wonderful people. Because of their own state of being, they have not allowed these files to be opened and so they’re not influenced by them, and then they’re seen within these illuminati families as cuckoos in the nest. I know one. I know one very, very well and she’s a remarkable, staggeringly remarkable woman.

She’s right in the middle of some of these bloodlines and she couldn’t be less like them and they don’t know what to do with her. Consciousness can overcome anything, but it’s got to be open. I mean it’s simple things like is it right, is it just, is it fair. If people just keep asking that question, instead of what is right for me and my perception in a moment, what is right, fair, and just in these circumstances. If we keep making decisions, whether we’re in the bloodline or not, if we keep making decisions based on that criteria as we go through our daily life, then we are not going to be in the vibrational state of the entities and the control system.

We’re not because the control system says what do I need to do to get the outcome that I want for me. That’s its whole criteria, that’s the whole criteria of these entities. Because one of the key traits, which explains a lot about the world Hillary, one of the key traits of these hybrid bloodlines when the files are open is a lack of empathy, no empathy, the inability to empathize with the consequences for others of our actions. Once you have no empathy, the fail safe mechanism of human behavior has gone because anything goes 3000 people on 9/11 and we got to invade the countries, he wanted then, what’s the problem. Hundreds of thousands of dead and injured people in Iraq, so what? We got to control Iraq, I mean what’s the problem.

This is the mentality that they go through when you have no empathy because it’s whatever is right for me. This is why they lie all the time. They have to lie of course because if they told the truth, then they’d be saying it’s all a control system and there’s a few controlling the many. They’re not going to do that. They have to lie all the time. They have to lie about everything they do on the stepping stones of the agenda because if they told the truth, they’d say well we’re only doing this now because it’s leading to this and it’s leading to that and the outcome we want is total human control. They’re not going to say that which means these people are lying all the time, but to them lying is not a problem, it’s the means to an end.

You told a massive lie then but I’ve got the outcome I wanted, what’s the problem. This is the mentality once you have no empathy. Anyone who has empathy with the consequences for others of their actions who does what they believe to be right and just and fair when they’re making decisions over whatever situation they’re facing, they are by that definition alone going to pull themselves vibrationally or hold themselves vibrationally outside of the control systems clutches.

Hillary Raimo:  David, why do you think the positive contact experiences are withheld so frequently and not shared often enough within the subculture?

David Icke:  Well, I think there’s a tremendous amount of information about non-human activity around this planet that’s kept from us, and one of the reasons is that the fact that there is a non-human element to the control of humanity. That is prime to them to keep under wraps, to keep from people. The other thing is that once you start talking in any way about life beyond this planet, what are you doing? You’re immediately expanding people’s perception of themselves in the world and reality. No longer is it just one race of people on one planet in a dead solar system and apparently dead galaxy, now suddenly bang, hey your expansion of a sense of possibility and the reality you are a part of suddenly massively expands once you accept that these expressions of life exists.

Not just exist, but exist in enormous abundance, so there are many different reasons for it. Of course, they don’t want people to perceive any positive kind of benevolent connection to an extraterrestrial force because that by definition takes their power away, because they want to control by being the only force, the only source of control and information and all the rest of it. They don’t want anybody else being looked at as hey, it’s not just about governments and people like that, there’s benevolent non-human entities visiting the planet crikey, what can they tell us.

It’s like that they have a process of what I call defend the first domino because you see these situations sometimes where they have thousands and thousands and sometimes millions of dominoes, and they push the first one down and then it hits the next one and suddenly they’re all going down right at the end. They have this system and like I say I call defend the first domino for this reason. If you start to encompass, for instance, alternative methods of healing instead of really curling and rejecting them as the system does, then you are pressing the first domino because okay, this first domino has gone down which is okay yeah, well there’s something in this alternative view of healing.

Okay next Domino is a question, well how do they work then, and now you’ve started dominoes falling in terms of changing the perception of the nature of the human body, the nature of who we are, and all the rest of it once the first domino’s gone, which is yeah well there could be something in this alternative healing the system says. They defend the first domino fiercely, so bang we must not let alternative healing get any credibility because of what comes from that and in the same way, we must shut the door on the whole ET thing, especially the benevolent part of it because of what will come from that if we let the first domino fall.

I do feel that as you indicated earlier Hillary that there is a plan, which has been talked about for a long time by various researchers and what have you, that there is a plan at some point to introduce the fact that there is a possible threat to humanity from an extraterrestrial force. It won’t be the force reveal that’s really behind it, but if you want to see through it there is this technique that I call problem reaction solution create the problem, get the reaction, do something oh my God, and then you offer the solution to the problems you have created, which changes societies how you want it.

If you want to change the global situation, if you want to change the world globally in terms of everyone at the same time, then you need global problems through which you can offer a global solution. You have for instance the global war on terror, so you can offer global solutions to that. You have a global financial problem, so you can offer global solutions to that, like a world central bank but it takes the war global finance to everywhere in the country. You have global warming problem they have created in the public mind on increasingly less mine, but still enormous amount of people, so you can offer global solutions to that.

Of course if you’re dealing with a global threat from an extraterrestrial race perceived, manufactured, whatever, then you have the ability to put a global solution to that, which is bringing all the military and political kind of systems together as one. I mean what you have in a country if there’s a threat to a country, you have a war cabinet, you have a few people sitting around the table making the decisions, not the rest of the government anymore. Of course if you had a perceived threat to the world from an extraterrestrial external force, then bingo you would have the equivalent of a global war cabinet, a few people making decisions for the world.

I’m not saying this is definitely going to happen, but I’m saying it’s a possibility through something that’s been talked about for years called Project Blue Beam, which was written about many, many years ago that this was one of the plans, one of the possibilities that would be introduced to manipulate humanity to accept an immense centralization of power in the world.

Hillary Raimo:  David what about all of the people that are coming forward recently about time travel and exposing the fact that governments all over the world have been funding this for quite some time and researching this, and that they have in fact been using the technology, what are your thoughts on that?

David Icke:  I think that technology in the underground bases and the secret projects is light years ahead of anything we see in the public arena, and this is a very important point because if you want to suppress people’s sense of what is possible, in other words potential, then what you need to do is suppress their perception of possibility. Now this seems like an incredibly obvious statement, but sometimes we miss the obvious what I’m saying by this is if you suppress through suppression of science and such things, suppression of technological development in the public domain, what is actually possible, then you create a sense of limitation in the public mind because the public’s mind’s basic perception of what’s possible is what they can see is possible because it’s happening.

This is why when people talked about flying in spaceships or even flying at one point, they will laugh at that, that’s not possible, you can’t fly with a heavier than air machine, you can’t do this. Yeah, how many things that we take for granted today before people’s eyes and was suggested that this is possible that the general population said you’re mad, you’re crazy, that’s not possible. Once they see it then their sense of possibility expands. Oh you can fly in a heavier than air machine, oh I’ve just been on the holidays in one, I know it’s true, I experienced it. The more you suppress what’s possible, the more you suppress perception of possibility.

When people come out like researchers and say this is what they’re doing and this is the technology they’re using to do it, people said that’s crazy, that’s not possible. No, your perception is that it’s not possible, it’s not that it’s actually not possible, it’s your perception that is telling you that. Beyond the public arena are fantastic technologies to give us free energy, to keep people alive and healthy for immensely longer than we are now. Many different things are being used, not always being used often not being used positively, being used negatively, but being used in another way with a benevolent loving force could bring tremendously positive changes to the human experience.

This is another interesting area along with what we’ve got, but this is another interesting area Hillary that I’ve talked about in this new book Human Race Get Off Your Knees, and that is that these extraterrestrials, these reptilian, manipulating non-humans, they operate outside of this reality overwhelmingly, and therefore they operate to a different perception of time, which is just a construct. They can see down our timeline to a certain extent, but we can’t see down because we’re in it. Interestingly when you look at prophetic books that have been written in novel form like George Orwell’s 1984, Elvis Huxley’s Brave New World, if you put those two books, let’s just take those two books.

If you put those two books together, then you’ve pretty much got what the control system wants to impose on planet earth as well and then some, but just in theme, they’re absolutely right. Then you say hold on a second, how do they know that. Huxley’s book was written in 1932 and Orwell’s book was written in 1948 or published in 1948, how did they know, how do some of these other books, prophetic books know and how could they talk about technology and the use of drugs, et cetera that didn’t even exist at the time but do now.

It’s interesting when you look at those two books because George Orwell’s real name was Eric Blair who was a pupil at Eton college where the Royals go, one of the elite colleges in Britain just outside Windsor, in fact literally just outside Windsor, where Windsor Castle is, one of the main homes of the royal family. His teacher, French teacher for a time at Eton College was Elvis Huxley and Huxley introduced Orwell, Eric Blair to the Fabian Society, which is one of the major strands in the illuminati network of secret societies. It was the organization that created the British Labour Party of Tony Blair, the start of the 20th century.

When you can access this secret society network at some deep level, you can access the projected future that these guys want to impose upon humanity and you can therefore write novels, which appear to be from imagination but with the passage of decades now, we can see stunningly accurate in terms of what’s actually happening and is planned to happen. Then you ask the question, well how could they write about technology that we have now but was not even thought of then, because when you are interacting with these non-human entities through these the deep, deep levels, not Fred and Joe down the Free Masons Lodge, I’m talking the deep, deep inner core levels of this global secret society network.

You can access the projected future through though those non-human entities, and you know things like nanotechnology and computer systems and all this stuff that’s coming out now, it has been known about and used by these non-human entities, these reptilian entities I would suggest for eons.

What is the use of introducing nanotechnology in our timeline of 1640 or 1820, waste of time. It’s introduced as we reach the point where it can be used as part of the control system and if you can have access to that information way back through the secret society network, then you can write prophetic novels including technology that was not there at the time but you know is coming.

Hillary Raimo:  We are out of time David, thank you for sharing this important perspective with us.

David Icke:  It’s my pleasure. Thank you Hillary for your show and the work you do in the world.


Copyright 2017 and beyond all rights reserved. No part of this transcript may be copied or republished without permission.

Chad Marlow, Privacy Counsel ACLU Data Privacy in the Digital Age Transcript

Recorded May 2016 on Rocking Politics hosted by Hillary Raimo

Hillary Raimo:   Every day your personal data gets swept up by location trackers, email, and social media apps and the devices and third party software that you use at school, work, or home. And right now there are too few legal limits protecting you from how your data gets used.

Your highly-sensitive personal data is up for grabs, the government has way too much access to it, and corporations are making billions of dollars mining it. That’s why people are becoming more educated on how to #takectrl of their data, a new initiative movement started by the ACLU.

A bi-partisan coalition of legislatures in 16 states and the District of Columbia simultaneously announced legislation to boost privacy protections for students and employees to stop warrant-less invasions of your emails and text messages and safeguard you against location trafficking. The ACLU has been our nation’s guardian of liberty, working imports, legislature in communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country. Whether it’s achieving school equality for everyone, establishing new privacy protections for our digital age of widespread government surveillance, ending mass incarceration, or preserving the right to vote, or the right to have an abortion, the ACLU takes up the toughest civil liberty cases and issues to defend all people from government abuse and overreach.

Joining me today is Chad Marlow. He is the advocacy and policy Council at the ACLU, where his focus is primarily on privacy and technology. Welcome.

Chad Marlow:  Thank you so much, it’s my pleasure.

Hillary Raimo:  Most people when they think of this subject, mass government surveillance and data mining, they think in terms of the NSA and Edward Snowden. They get a little bit paranoid maybe, or so overwhelmed they shut down and ignore it. Where do we start when it comes to really understanding the facts?

Chad Marlow:  That’s a good question, and unfortunately I think the place to start is to understand the problem you have to understand the full scope of it. Certainly what the NSA and other federal agencies are doing in terms of mass surveillance of the American public is a major concern, and in and of itself, if that was all there was we would have a major problem on our hands. Unfortunately the problem goes much deeper than that.

A lot of the surveillance that Americans encounter unknowingly on a daily basis is not necessarily coming from the NSA, but it’s coming from state and local law enforcement agencies. So, when you walk down the street with your cell phone, or drive down the street in your car your location may be being tracked by local law enforcement and you wouldn’t even know it. In all likelihood, that is not being tracked by the NSA but it is being tracked by local law enforcement. When you send your kids off to school, and you think that’s a safe place for them to be, you may not realize that the school is uploading enormous volumes of confidential information about your kids. The school and corporations in the Ed Tech Center are mining that data to figure out everything they can about your kids. From how they can advertise to your kids, to perhaps noting that they got two or three detentions this year, and so if they apply for a home loan or a student loan in several years, they make it a higher interest rate because there is a greater risk.

Obviously, when we go on social media and we choose to share information with a limited number of friends, that information is mined by corporations to learn everything they can about us in order to monetize information about us and the way that we live our lives.

Unfortunately, these incursions into our privacy are very broad-based. So I think that when we first think about how we are going to address them, we have to think about the scope of them and realize that there is no magic bullet on privacy. That there is no single law or measure that can be taken that will solve all of these problems because we have actors on the federal, state, and local government levels, as well as private actors who are engaging in these incursions. So really it’s going to be, unfortunately, a broad-based, steady, incremental process as we continue to push back. If there is a silver lining in there it’s that Americans are pushing back, they’re increasingly pushing back, and we’re starting to have victories to show for it.

Hillary Raimo:  Can you expand on how local law enforcement is tracking people? Should this technology be disclosed to the public?

Chad Marlow:  Do they disclose it? Sometimes. It takes groups like the ACLU and others to force them to disclose it. But there’s lots of ways in which you’re being tracked by local law enforcement. Again, it varies on how … Where you live matters as much as you might think. For example, you live in a major metropolitan area, you might think that there might be some fairly active monitoring of local law enforcement for public safety purposes, but same thing goes for small towns in Connecticut, for example. It’s really pretty pervasive.

So I’ll give you some examples. As I alluded to before, if you drive your car down the street in many cities and towns there is a likelihood that a technology called an Automatic License Plate Reader is going to look at your license plate, digitize it, and track where you’ve been. They may search your car, sometimes for legitimate purposes incidentally. If your car is stolen, or a subject of an Amber Alert, they’re going to know about that, and that’s good. But in other cases they’re just going to make note of where you were at that moment, and keep that on file. So over the course of time they may know what religious institutions you visit, what doctors you go to, what political meetings you go to.

Do you go to an AA meeting? These sort of private subjects about you, so that happens. If you’re walking around with your cell phone there’s devices called Stingrays or more generally cell fight simulators which work like the child’s game of Marco Polo. They pretend to be a cell phone tower to yell out “Marco” and your phone has no choice but to reply with “Polo,” and in saying “Polo” they reveal where you are and other data that is captured on your phone.

If you’re using Facebook, or other social media, a lot of police departments and local law enforcement monitor what you do on social media to make conclusions about what things you’re interested in and what activities you’re engaged in. So there is a lot of work going on, and those are just a couple of examples. I also alluded to if you send your kids to school there is a lot of people, even law enforcement, that are going to monitor what your kid is doing in school to see if they can draw some conclusions about what threats your kids may present to the community. It’s happening in a lot of ways and it’s happening in a way … In so many ways that it’s almost pervasive in our lives in the year 2016.

Hillary Raimo:  Obviously, these kinds of systems did not pop up overnight. Can you talk to us about how this technology grew to be what it is today?

Chad Marlow:  Sure, I think it happened in two ways that are not completely connected, but are somewhat connected. The first is after 9/11 there was obviously a dramatic, understandable on some emotional levels, a strong push to do anything we could to protect ourselves. So the idea at that moment was any sacrifice of privacy in the name of safety was justified. With that, there was a turn to technology to find every conceivable way that we could learn anything about the “bad guys.” Unfortunately, when you don’t know who the ‘bad guys’ are you have to get information on everybody. And so that’s exactly what they did, that’s exactly what the NSA did. They decided to get information on everybody, and in so doing, treated everyone like a potential criminal, a potential terrorist. So that’s what they did. That’s where that came from on the government side.

On the private business side, something totally different. The internet is exploding, it’s becoming an incredible source of providing information to people, but there is a question of how do we monetize the internet. On the one hand, you have your basic commerce features where you’re looking at ‘let’s sell you a sweater, let’s sell you a CD,’ and you make money off that. But a lot of smart people realize quickly that the real potential of the internet was not in what I sold you but in the information I can learn about you. And the more of that I can gather, the more I can compile and sell to others who are looking to sell you a product, or to motivate the way you vote, or to encourage where you might go on a vacation, or to influence you to watch a TV show, or listen to a radio show. And so the private corporation had a completely different motive, which is “How do we take this amazing thing, the internet, and related technologies like cloud computing services where you can store information away from your actual hard drive on your computer, how can we maximize our profit off of this?”

Where these things potentially meet in the middle is that those companies who have the ability to develop advanced surveillance technologies can turn around and sell them to an eager government market who has the financial ability to pay billions of dollars to obtain that. I think that those three roads, that somewhat converge but somewhat don’t, have all led us to this moment in time where people are finally waking up and looking at the landscape and saying in the words of the old Talking Heads song, “How did I get here?” And not being comfortable with where here is.

Hillary Raimo:  There’s an article Chad, back in July of 2015, about a mass surveillance infrastructure made out of light bulbs. Tell us about that.

Chad Marlow:  In some respects, we’re in an era where no surveillance can be too pervasive, or too stealthy.

It came to light, if you’ll forgive the pun, that one way to create a larger ready-network of surveillance cameras in cities, airports, stores you may go to, would be by having this kind of dual pitch. Municipality or airport or company or… You could save a lot of money on your lighting bill if you switched from incandescent light bulbs to LED light bulbs to which most of us said “That makes a lot of sense,” and they said “But let me tell you about our LED bulbs. Our LED bulbs not only is a light bulb, but we have the ability to put a surveillance camera and audio microphone inside the bulb, so that in this place that here before has just been a light socket to now be converted over into a light socket as well as a full surveillance video and audio camera for your use.” The concept and pictures’ been pushing … I’ve seen this in a lot of locations. One such that has been publicly revealed is Newark Liberty Airport, but other cities are considering using them.

It’s just a conversion over to these light bulbs. You look up and you see them and you think ‘light bulb,’ there’s no reason to think looking at these things that these are in fact surveillance devices. And if you think about “What does the airport look like? What does the city look like?” Imagine the street lights in your city have been converted all into LED surveillance cameras.

As I talk about these things I like to think I have enough of a footstool grounded in the real world to know that sometimes talking about these things it sounds like “Oh, let’s pack out the tin foil hats.” The fact is that these things exist. They actually exist. The license plate readers, the Stingrays. There’s things called Dirtboxes which are Stingrays that go on airplanes, Shotspotter, these things that sense gun shots, these things, LED surveillance light bulbs. They exist now, it’s not science fiction it’s science fact. This is one of the things that companies like GE are trying to roll out and push because they sense there’s a market for them and I think that there is. Again, unless the public starts drawing lines in the sand and saying “You know what, this is too much of an incursion on our daily lives to be acceptable to us as the population.”

So that’s the situation with these incredibly stealthy, tricky, and as they’re advertised, cost-effective in terms of the lighting bill, LED light bulbs that may, if we don’t push back, be coming to a city or an airport or a store near you soon.

Hillary Raimo:  Are we talking the LED lights in people’s homes – the environmentally friendly way to participate in climate exchange efforts –  or is this only done in public spaces or utility situations?

Chad Marlow: My best guess, and they tend to be a little secretive on that technology is theoretically it could be put into someone’s home. Because I believe these light bulbs, they don’t communicate through a direct plug-in wire feature, they would communicate through a through-air technology like Wi-Fi. So again, theoretically if they do that one could be stealthily put into someone’s home, communicate by Wi-Fi to something outside your home and you’d never be the smarter for it. Certainly-

Hillary Raimo:  Let’s talk about the #takectrl project, how people can get involved, and why it matters.

Chad Marlow:  Sure.

So, the first stage of the #takectrl effort … Again is the hashtag is #takectrl. As it’s written on your keyboard, so ‘ctrl’ is the hashtag. There’s really three underlying concepts behind it.

First is: What is privacy about? Privacy, on some level, is about the protections we’re entitled to under the Fourth Amendment, and I get that. But, on the other hand, really what privacy is about … It’s about you and I being able to make decisions about what information we want to share and with whom. All of us may have different places where we go to on that. I have a certain standard that I have for my privacy, Kim Kardashian has another standard, they are very, very different, but we all have lives. And what #takectrl is about the first instance is that individuals should be empowered to draw those lines. In effect right, now the government, and even more so corporations want to view your privacy the way you use it like an automobile; where they say “You are entitled to step on the accelerator, the sharing accelerator as much as you want, but you’re not allowed to tap the brake.” Really, what privacy is about is allowing everyone the power to hit the accelerator, that sharing accelerator as much as they want but also to tap the break as much as they want. So that’s the first aspect of the #takectrl campaign.

The second is that there is a working theory that is largely accurate in this country right now. That Democrats and Republicans, progressives and conservatives, I even mean ultra-liberals and Tea Party people that we cannot work together on any issues. We are so discordant in this country that we can’t come together on anything. While that is largely true, it is not true for issues of privacy. For issues of privacy you see groups like the ACLU, and the very conservative 10th Amendment Center marching arm and arm on these issues. Privacy is one issue where we can find many points of agreement. To not act to protect Americans privacy, given that it is one of the very few areas which we have broad, bipartisan, basically nonpartisan consensus would be even more of a shame. And fortunately what we’re seeing is there’s becoming a broader recognition of that and Democrats and Republicans, and conservatives and progressives, are in fact working far more broadly on privacy then before, and I think that’s going to continue to increase.

The third element of it is this: Consistently Americans have looked to the federal government, to Congress, to protect their rights broadly. Primarily, and logically because if Congress passes a bill it effects every single American. But at the same time, Americans are getting very frustrated with Congressional inaction, particularly on issues of great importance like privacy. And what #takectrl is about is it’s saying “You know what? If Congress is not going to act to protect our privacy then the states will.”

And granted, California, or New York, or Illinois, or Arkansas, or Alabama, can’t pass the law that affects everyone, they’re not going to sit back if their cities privacy is compromised and do nothing because Congress isn’t acting. The states are going to step up, and they are going to take action to protect their citizens rights, and if Congress wants to sit back and watch, so be it. They’re not going to sit on their hands anymore. What #takectrl did is in very broad areas from student data privacy, to location tracking, to personal data privacy … 16 States and the District of Columbia all enacted legislation on the same day, at the same time, again, bipartisan support and pointed at each other saying “You know what? We’re acting individually, but we are acting together to make a point that the United States is unified on this issue even if our federal government isn’t acting. That we are going to take positive steps.” Even already we already have three states, West Virginia, Virginia, and Nebraska, who have passed #takectrl privacy laws, and we have other states that are looking very good. So, again I think that the idea that Congress should act but if they won’t the states and others will, I think it’s the third, and perhaps in some ways the most powerful tenet of the take control effort.

Hillary Raimo:  Now, with the elections coming up in the fall, none of the candidates have been discussing this matter of privacy and data mining. How does the ACLU see the establishment change affecting the legislation and the laws around this topic?

Chad Marlow:  In the first instance, it’s not that these issues have not come up at all. Senator Paul on the Republican side is very active when talking about privacy issues. Martin O’Malley and Bernie Sanders engaged in a pretty decent discussion during one of the Democratic debates.

In some respects, privacy is a challenging issue for the presidential campaign, particularly now that we’re coming to the general election because Democrats and Republicans agree on it. The presidential election often is devolved into discussion of points of disagreement, and I think that that’s unfortunate. I think it would be a value to the nation if the presidential candidates were pushed on issues of privacy both with respect to individuals and the government, and individuals and corporations, because I think they have a lot to say about it. But they’re going to have to be prompted because in our 24-hour news cycle where something dramatic has to happen for them to cover it, but at the same time soundbyte where if something is a thoughtful point that doesn’t necessarily scream of disagreement it doesn’t get a lot of coverage, so it’s a little bit challenging.

While I would hope getting the importance of this issue, and getting the broad national agreement movement on the issue would be something the presidential candidates talk about, they’re probably not going to do so without being prompted because it’s not a place they can draw a line in the sand. Because as I said, there’s really broad agreement on these issues. But moving from that agreement to actual tangible action is going to take conversation and moving this more into the forefront of the American consciousness.

Hillary Raimo:  So much entanglement with government and corporations that are making billions of dollars off of the data mining. Is anything really private anymore? Have people kind of just given up on the subject of privacy because they’ve become so conditioned to the fact that they are always being watched?

Chad Marlow:  I don’t think so. I think it depends on how you talk about it. If you say to someone “What do you feel about protecting your privacy?” and you say it that way, people will say “Oh, listen I don’t have anything to hide, I’m not so concerned about privacy.” But then, if you put it this way “When you went on that beach vacation you shared photos of yourself and your family on the beach and you were in a bathing suit, right? You share that with your friends?” “Yeah.” “How do you feel about your boss looking at those pictures?” “Whoa I don’t want-” “Well, you know what? Maybe your employer is looking at your social media account.”

One of the bills we have protects employees social media privacy, so when you bring it to that level. “Did you send that cute wink, wink message to your spouse the other day?” “Yeah, I did.” “Hey, what do you feel about the local police precinct looking at that picture?” “What?!” So I think the thing with privacy is it doesn’t resonate when you discuss it on a theoretical level, but when you bring it down to specific examples where it’s happening I think people really do care about it, and they really do want a line drawn in the sand. That’s really where the work revolves.

I would say one thing about federal action. I wouldn’t write off at all action on the federal level, because Congressional legislations is like a lottery ticket now-a-days. You buy a lottery ticket, you don’t expect to win, but if you win, oh you get a big win. You’re going to get rich. That’s kind of the way with federal privacy legislation. It’s very, very hard to get it passed, but if you do get it passed, it’s going to be a dramatic and huge win for the country.

One bill that’s been stalled in Congress for a very, very long time involves electronic communications protection act. In short, the law that currently exists is so old it goes back to the 80’s. And based on quirk on the way email worked in the 80’s, you might be surprised, and your listeners might be surprised to learn that any email that you have on a server like Gmail or Yahoo that is over 180 days old, the government doesn’t need a warrant to read it. Because it’s considered abandoned by the standards of the 1980’s. This outdated law actually has a majority of members of the Congress sponsoring it but it hasn’t moved for basically political leadership reasons. But if we could get that bill to move that would be a major change for hundreds of millions of Americans. I certainly wouldn’t give up on that, but I think the more important point is to say that we need to try to get our victories wherever we can. So if that’s the federal government, state government, local government, we need to be hitting in any place we have opportunities for victory because we have to take them where we can get them. That’s the larger strategic point.

Hillary Raimo:   Okay, people are listening, they want to do something to stop the over reach and invasion of their privacy. Where can people start?

Chad Marlow:  All right, well in that … Not to sound self-serving but one of the places you can start is you can go to, search for privacy or the #takectrl hashtag or even go to Twitter and search for the #takectrl hashtag and get yourself tied in to the movement and the work that’s being done. Right now, when I look before me there are some critical bills dealing with issues of privacy that are active in many states. If you have listeners in Hawaii, or Illinois, or Connecticut, or in New York, Minnesota, all of these states, and quite frankly many, many more have active privacy bills which getting word out to your elected officials or writing a piece in your local newspaper is just the sort of thing that gives more attention to these bills and communicates to the people who can pass laws that the public actually cares about these issues. Surprisingly, it doesn’t take a whole lot of that to give these bills the momentum they need to pass. That’s want people can do to become informed and engaged at or in other places and they can participate in the process.

I certainly understand the theoretical concern that if you write something you’re gonna be more monitored but the bad news/good news is you’re already being monitored so you don’t have to worry about that so much unless you pop off and write something that’s really threatening to somebody, chances are it’s not going to get much worse for you.

I think it’s like anything else. Become informed and get engaged. Let’s just think … I can tell you a story right now, we had a bill that dealt with social media privacy issues in West Virginia, and the bill, although it had broad bi-partisan support, it didn’t seem certain that it was going to get a hearing in the committee that it was waiting before. The ACLU engaged our activists and others and ended up generating about 200 phone calls to the office to the committee chair and that was enough to get the bill moving, and it is now a law in West Virginia. 200 people, that’s not a whole lot. So really there is a lot of power in individual action.

Again, if people can stay informed and become active with even a reasonably sized group of other people you can get a lot done. You’d be surprised.

Hillary Raimo:  Yes. Thank you. Visit and find out more. #Takectrl, ‘ctrl,’ get to your social media networks and make a difference. You do count. Chad, thank you for joining us and for speaking to us about this important topic.

Chad Marlow:  My pleasure, thank you so much for having me.

Originally recorded May 2016 Rocking Politics hosted by Hillary Raimo all rights reserved. No part of this transcript may be reproduced without permission contact 



Dr. Carol Rosin & Hillary Raimo Space Based Weapon Agendas, Cosmic War & Peace in Space

Transcription of 2011 episode of The Hillary Raimo Show with Dr. Carol Rosin 

Hillary Raimo:  Tonight is a very special and very important show. Dr. Carol Rosin was a witness in the Disclosure Project at the National Press Club in Washington DC in May of 2001, led by Dr. Steven Greer. She has since appeared in numerous media productions, interviews, and publications. She has served on technical and non-technical boards including the advisory board of the Exopolitics Institute. Among her awards included United Societies in Space Award for her 30 years of humanitarian work for the peaceful uses of space for peace on earth also.

She is founder of the Institute for Security and Cooperation in Outer Space. Dr. Rosin is leading an initiative to have a very important document signed by world leaders on this planet that would ban space weapons. Carol says that would cause a bridging of worlds for not only people here on this planet, but other worldly beings that are visiting here. Dr. Rosin joins me tonight to talk about the project.

Dr. Carol Rosin:  Thank you so much for having me and for making it possible to share all of this and with you.


Hillary Raimo:  Dr. Rosin, I want to start by discussing your background and work. You were an assistant to Dr. Wernher Von Braun, the father of rocketry, a Nazi scientist given asylum here in the United States who had visions of humanity colonizing Mars. Tell us about your time with him.

Dr. Carol Rosin:  I met Dr. Wernher Von Braun in 1974. I was actually invited to the Aerospace Industry Fairchild, because they were looking for a woman to be pushed up the corporate ranks of industry. I was teaching sixth grade, a child psychologist type. I was pretending that my classroom was in outer space, because these kids live in a very low socioeconomic area, and they wanted to figure out a way to learn, but they didn’t want to be on the earth. Actually, the students created this way of setting up our classroom as though it was a space habitat. An article hit the press. It was really a fluke. It said that students were studying on spaceship earth. It was actually a satellite that was being launched, but it was misinterpreted by a lot of teachers. Most of us didn’t know what a satellite was in those days.

I was invited up to Fairchild to explain what I was doing, because teachers were communicating with their child saying, “Can I launch my classroom? Can I communicate with the kids with pen pals if they’re in outer space?” It was really funny, actually. I went to Fairchild, and I met some of the managers. They were interviewing, but actually, I was interviewing them to find out what was going on really in space since my students were pretending to be living and working there.

I was introduced to Wernher Von Braun as a gift. It was actually a gift they gave me. What was supposed to be a 10 minute meeting that lasted for over two hours. Von Braun, it turned out had a sense of humor, even though he was dying of cancer. He was being given just a few weeks to live at that time when he was cleaning out his office. He was shooing everybody away while I was sitting in front of his desk pretty much speechless, because I was talking to Von Braun. I knew he was a German. I didn’t know too much about him. I knew that he was associated with what I thought were Nazis, of course they were. What I didn’t know is that he had planned the escape from Preenemunde, from being under Hitler. He brought these, I think it was 118 scientists to the states. More than that went to Russia. He started telling me this whole story. At some point he tapped his finger on the desk, and he said “You will come to Fairchild. You will be here in three weeks. You must keep weapons out of space.”

Then he went on. I remember saying something to him like, “No, teachers don’t quit until June.” This was February. Then we go on vacation and/or we take courses. I won’t come to the aerospace company. I’m a teacher. This conversation just went on and on. The mesmerizing quality of the look in his eyes and the intention was absolutely impossible to say no to. At some point, I realized that he was dying. He assured me he was going to live for a few more years to teach me what the real game was, and he did. He lived another three and a half, almost four years. I was so lucky to have this relationship with him where I would give his speeches for him. Inevitably, my first speech was to 18,000 educators at the McCormick hall, which houses about 18,000 people. It was teachers. I was to introduce satellites as a teaching tool. It was quite an experience even then, because my first real speaking engagement was with Wernher Von Braun transmitting this speech into my left ear without a telephone.

You can imagine from there where this experience went. I had different roles in the entire military-industrial complex. My biography, when I look at it, it looks like the third person. It couldn’t possibly be that I had done all that, but it’s all underestimated in my bio. That was Von Braun. He really gave me this assignment. I’ve tried to quit several times.

This last one that we’re working on now that I’m so happy to announce on your show that you and I are going to be working on together is to get a treaty signed called the Outer Space Security and Development Treaty of 2011. It’s the most astonishing document, the most beautiful, intelligent, truthful, spiritually based, feasible, technologically, economically, politically, psychologically, socially, feasible treaty I have ever seen. I’ve read quite a few. That’s really where I’m going with that Von Braun assignment, to keep weapons out of space and also to acknowledge the reality, the existence of what I call “all planet cultures.” Some people call them ETs or aliens. In the treaty, they’re referred to as cosmic cultures. It’s a continuation, really, of what I know Von Braun would’ve been doing if he could have lived. He finally died of cancer in 1977. I went on an even more amazing journey. Thanks for asking about that.

I know Von Braun is controversial in a lot of circles, because he was a Nazi. I’ve even been accused of being one or a Nazi lover, because I worked with him. Anyone that knew him would tell you this is one of the most spectacular visionaries of our time. What a lucky thing this was for me. People who think that way, I feel sorry for them. I feel even more sorry that they didn’t get a chance to meet him and understand where these rocket scientists, that’s what they really are, were coming from and what their purpose is. It had nothing to do with war. That was their assignment. I worked with people working on the A10 bomb or airplane, but I’m not a warrior. I’m a full-time day and night for the last 37 year, peace activist and environmental activist.

A lot of us got caught up in these jobs. In his case, they would not have survived. They would have probably been killed or their families may have been if they didn’t do their assignments over in Germany at that time. Then they came over here and got sucked up again in a missile program, but as soon as they could, they started working on the moon landing and on many other visionary pieces of technology that were just spectacular and still are the foundation for what we’re doing in space that can have enormous benefits to earth.

Hillary Raimo:  Would you care to talk about what agendas he shared with you?

Dr. Carol Rosin: In which aspect of it, Hillary?

Hillary Raimo:  You mentioned in your testimony he had told you back in the late 1970s that there was an agenda with the Gulf War. First the Gulf War, then there would be terrorist, then asteroids and then an alien threat. Could you expand on that?

Dr. Carol Rosin: Yes, in fact, I testified with that. People can see it in clips on YouTube from the Disclosure Project. Thanks for identifying this, because he shared so much with me. Well, to bring this up, is one of the most profound pieces of information, I think, I ever had to digest. That is that these war games are planned so far in advance. It’s hard for people to believe. They think that we’re actually going into these different countries for some reason other than for security reasons, especially. I think people more and more are waking up to the fact that it isn’t to defend us or our country or because somebody’s jealous of all the good things we have, all the propaganda that we’re told. Actually, these games continue to keep the whole military-industrial lab university, NASA, and other international space agencies, now the international organizations like NATO, this whole complex of government intelligence community going.

It’s based on wars and drugs. This is something that … Sorry, someone’s calling me and I couldn’t stop it on this Skype. This basis for war is fraudulent. It’s a lie. We keep finding out more and more about this lie. We live under a canopy of lies and behind a veil of secrecy. I think more and more people, especially, probably your listeners, are becoming more and more intelligent that the fact is we just keep this war game going.

There are a number of reasons for it that Von Braun shared with me. Of course, the formula I mentioned was when I was starting out in this in ’74, the Russians were the enemy. Then I could see what he said has come true now that we would identify third world country threats. We’ll have nations of concern. Eventually, we’ll look at asteroids. We have to protect our assets in space. There are a whole list of reasons like that that are given to us for why we are inevitably going to need space-based weapons. That’s what they’re aiming at. What are the space-based weapons for? To dominate and control the Earth from space and space from space. That’s not me or Von Braun making it up. That’s actually in the defense guidance plan to control the Earth from space and space from space.

Now, you’re starting to see, even in the last two days we’ve seen more announcements of conferences that are starting to take place including in the UK and Europe and around the world where the topic of conversation is threats from space. That’s actually the kind of titles that they’re using. Of course, they’re saying what other things there could be, maybe an asteroid threat or comet, who knows. We know what they’re talking about. Von Braun knew. He talked to me between the lines. What they really don’t want us to find out is who we really are in the universes, plural. The way we’re going to find that out is when we are able to acknowledge officially that there are extraterrestrial beings that have been here, they are here. There are credible witnesses who have testified to this, military man has gone public at the National Press Club. Even more recently in 2010 September as you may have heard, Robert Salas, one of the military men say they’ve proven that they’re not hostile. They’ve shown they can shut down our missiles. Their technology makes our weapons basically obsolete. This whole game is really, really ridiculous of war.

It’s sad, because people are so suffering. It’s to dominate and control the world in space so that we don’t find out who we are. In some cases, it’s because … These are people I worked with, very high level people who are Armageddon knights. They actually think that they will be saved, and it’s okay. In fact, they’re expecting. In fact, they may even be of the handful of them causing it in their minds, Armageddon to happen, so that they can be saved. It’s almost a, not almost, it’s a religious fanaticism in some of them. It’s greed and money in another sector. It’s about jobs and sending their kids to college or feeding their children and their wives or themselves. It’s about selling books and tapes that people have bought into, the footnotes that keep getting passed along that the aliens are evil, which they’re not. They’re not dangerous. They’re not coming to steal our ovaries and resources. In fact, they have stopped doing experiments on humans a few years ago when they actually started to realize that the reason that we’re so different, that some humans holding the light and some humans killing each other, which is one of the things they were trying to find out when they were doing some experimenting according to my own visitation and what I’ve been told. The fact is, none of them are hostile.

This war machine is a farce. Your listeners, I know some of them are old enough to have seen the United States, which I unfortunately consider to be the most aggressive nation in this war machine, going from one country to the next country to the next with many different changes of reasons for who the enemy is and why we had to go into that country. I just turned 67 the other day in March, and I realize how many wars I have experienced.

I remember Timothy Leary wrote a book called The Intelligence Agents. He was identifying the genetic mutants he called the moo. We’re all talking about this space issue. In the book, there were two pages that mapped out the world. On that world map were 37 wars going on at the same time. That was way back in the early ’80s. Here we are in this generation of us who are listening to your show, how many wars have you seen the United States going to? In this one now, in Libya, they’re saying, “Oh well, we’re not doing it. We’re just going along with what the other countries want to do.” They’ve even found a new little slant to put on this one.

It’s just you will keep hearing gobs of these lies. It’s sickening really. What I’ve learned along the way having helped to start a movement, which I hear had a 50 million people in it that protested the weaponization of space, to stop star wars. I started the leaky umbrella campaign with people marching around the world with umbrellas with holes in them by presenting General Daniel Graham who introduced the space weapons programmed to Reagan with a leaky umbrella that the World War II veterans had given me outside of the studio of CNN. I remember saying to them, “I can’t present this to General Graham.” They said, “Yes, but it shows how the missiles will slip through. If they do, we’re all going to die in this so-called shield.” I remember saying to them, “Look, I’m a curly-haired woman in a short skirt. I mean, it’s hard to debate a general here.”

I did whip out the umbrella and open it. He put it over his shoulder. When he finally said to me what he had said in other debates, “Well Carol, the difference between us is you think nuclear bombs are bad. If you could hide behind a lilac bush, you can be safe.” I went, “What? You just walk a couple of miles and hide behind a lilac bush and you’ll be safe from a nuclear blast?” My eyeballs rolled. I remember pulling this umbrella out from under the seat.

I actually have worked on a lot of these movements. What I’ve learned from that that I’m getting at is it’s great to uncover the coverups. It’s great to find out what the secrets are and what the formulas and the plans are and what the lies are. There are just so many of them. That isn’t changing anything. It is waking up people. That’s all great. The protest movements, great, nice, makes us feel good. I want to participate in them. I’ve actually been cut out of some of the peace ones, because of some of the peace activist that think I’m a Nazi or a KGB agent or an FBI or a CIA agent. All these rumors around about me. It’s pretty funny too. The protest movements are very valuable. It gets us together. It’s an energy.

What I want to do with you and with anybody else that wants to make contact with us through your show or they can write to or they can go to the website, I’ll repeat those again later. That is something that people can do to let us know, to let you and me know that they are interested in working with us to get a treaty signed that will ban all weapons from space. When your listeners go to that website, I think they’re going to be quite thrilled and surprised.

I know that they’re going to get tapped into the highest frequency that this treaty is actually written in by the people just in the about us section. These are some men, the six men on the moon, some of your listeners probably know. They have Mitchell who founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences to study the brain and the mind and consciousness, because he had an out-of-body experience in space.

Scott Jones who’s just fantastic. I knew him when he was a senior aide to Senator Claiborne Pell when they were studying things like life after life, alternative technologies. He’s an amazing guy. He was also involved, like Ed was an all of these men were in one way or another, in the military or military industrial complex and the intelligence community.

Abe Kriger, just fantastic. He worked at Boeing for 37 years and part of what he did was work on what you and I would consider to be SDI, strategic defense initiative space weapons contracts at Boeing. These are all, now, senior men.

Commander Will Miller, who has been advisor to a number of us, to Steven Greer, Leslie Cane who has the best-selling book out now, to me on this extraterrestrial presence. To make sure that we don’t go out of whack in the content that were presenting, he’s just been a wonderful advisor for me. I’ll speak for myself.

One other one that I want to mention that’s the newest member of this website who is one of the most fantastic heroes on our planet. It’s the Canadian former Minister of Defense Paul Hellyer. We just posted one of his speeches that’s actually on YouTube. Here’s a man from this high-level government position in Canada, in this case, who is willing to go public with the fact that there are extraterrestrial beings and that we need to sign this treaty to ban weapons from space so that they can come in safely and share with us what they know.

I mean, these are beings that have traveled these great distances and lived for how many years in a ship that Von Braun actually described to me without saying it was a ship. He said that we’re going to have cars that have these thin skins. Humans can actually think their way to make them run. It was a whole thing that I’m now putting together and remembering that he said. It fits what the description is of these ships that they must be using, some of them, to get here. The telepathy, the psychotronic weapons that otherwise are going to be controlling all of our minds, are being experimented with right now. Some people know about harp, for example, which is a ground-based system. It’s not based in space. The beams go up and come down. The system itself is based on the ground.

What we’re going to be doing now is focusing on this treaty that will ban space-based weapons, allow these beings to come in safely. When they are invited in, imagine what we’re going to learn from them. They have alternative energy, obviously, or they couldn’t have gotten here. They’re certainly not using oil or coal or nuclear anything. This is really important to the survival of the species, of our human species and all the other plants and animals and 500 million orphans, I hear, that are on the planet now. You see what’s happening to the earth itself. There are solutions to this.

Many of us others who had been visited, we’ve all been told recently that none of them are hostile. Yes, there were some things in the past, but let’s not keep promoting those footnotes. Let’s get on with what’s real now. Let’s focus on the positives where there are enough negatives that can really get you depressed and down and even dysfunctional. You can talk to my husband about that. He introduced the Disclosure Project, and then at the end when one of the journalists said, “Well, if only one of your witnesses is telling a lie, then they’re all discredited.” My husband jumped up and said, “No. If only one of them is telling the truth.” That’s where this issue is. Some people will get it. Some won’t.

My version is move on. Let’s not try to convince anyone. I’m an educator, so I really want to educate people about this issue and that what I can do, for example, through your show. That’s what you and I are going to be doing as we meet with world leaders, which is our plan. The grassroots are going to be given a great grand grassroots plan that will be announced within the next couple of weeks on that website. This treaty is, I’m talking about the benefits of the off planet cultures, called cosmic cultures in the treaty, what it’s going to do. What really it’s about is, to me, having come out of the belly of the beast as the first woman corporate manager of an aerospace defense company, a space and missile defense consultant, I really got pushed up the ranks because they didn’t have any women.

I also had learned so much that I could probably talk military strategy to more top military people than you can imagine. In fact, I briefed the space command, the CIA. Space command is the combination of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. I’m an honorary Marine. This goes on and on. The only peace act was that I was an honorary marine. Anyway, this is a plan of action for the grassroots. It’s listed on the website right now in a very light form that, yes, you can please go and send this treaty if you have the gumption to do it to the world leaders with a letter saying, “Go sign it.” At this point we’re not asking, practically. We really have to be intensely focused with all of our intention and determination and commitment to getting this treaty signed into law.

The plan of action that we’re going to be working, that’s you and I included, will be two pronged. One for the grassroots to do. Hopefully, we’ll get a more of a point and click kind of website where people can just point and send their letters, but for now we need to start this rolling with your show. Anyone that’s interested can do this, or they can just make contact with us and wait until the formation of the plan of action is put into print on the website.

Then the second part will be for some of us to go to the world leaders themselves. We only need nine. According to the way this is written by these wonderful gentlemen on the website, this treaty, [inaudible 00:25:23] is to get nine world leaders to sign this treaty and ratify it, and we have a law. This is a real law. Yes, people are going to say, “Is it verifiable?” That’s what stopped other treaties from actually getting signed or the U.S. from participating in it. Yes, it’s verifiable. In ’67 when the Outer Space Treaty was formed not all the countries that are involved in space even existed. They certainly didn’t have the technology.

I put together the first telephone book of different countries that had telecommunications via satellite for an International Astronautical Federation Congress in Rome back in the ’70s. By the ’80s, there still were not that many people participating. In ’67, the United States was definitely number one, blah, blah, blah, and Russia. Of course, the Cold War was going on, as I mentioned, when I got involved in this in the early ’70s. Now we have many countries around the world are space faring nations. We know, you and I, I am sure you know this too, we will find nine leaders of countries that are going to sign and ratify this treaty.

I hope your listeners are really excited about this as I am. Nothing has gotten me excited in the few last years. I’ve actually been a recluse. I’ve been a recluse for the last two and a half years. I’ve just started to emerge, because these men were willing to come forward with all their credentials that are on the website and support and even work on every single word of this treaty. It’s all based on truth. The technology that exists and the potential for our survival as well as for the benefits to all of us in terms of the real security. That’s based on cooperation and collaboration. That’s where the verification comes in in space.

Although people will tell you there are weapons in space, I have yet to find out one piece of evidence of it. Nobody that I know can prove that there are. You just have people say, “Oh, yes. I saw them when I was 20.” No, this is not true. The fact of the matter is if there are any in space, this treaty will still ban them verifiably. The enforcement that we’re going to use is what you can imagine based on cooperation and collaboration not on confrontation and more weapons. I still can hardly believe that so many people are so dumbed down in the human species, or as Ed Mitchell says that they’re such a stupid species as part of it who believe that you need more weapons to make us more secure and we need to kill more people to make them safe. What? People put on their little uniforms and they go marching off. I guess they think they’re going to be heroes whether they’re dead or alive. I’m sorry, if it were my kid and it was a boy, he’d be wearing pink underwear.

Hillary Raimo: The frustration is real.

Dr. Carol Rosin:  If it was a girl …I just cannot believe … I love pink underwear. It’s just something … We have to find ways of stopping our children from going into these wars. If they’re going to play that old game, let’s play it and not go. That’s what needs to happen. In some of the countries, you see people protesting all over the world. They want what they think is democracy. I don’t considerable what we have democracy, actually, because someone else is making the decisions for me. I’m sure not making them or the world wouldn’t be run this way. I actually thought last night, I’ll just sit down and run for president. I’ll put Hillary in charge of media. We know enough people that we could get a great committee together. I don’t really want to do this, but somebody needs to do it that actually isn’t lying when they get up and present their platform.

We really need to come through with this treaty, because it’s going to open up the truth. It’s not confrontational in any way. It’s not hokey. It’s not a paranormal kind of thing that people can interpret us as being flakes. Uh-uh, can’t happen. We have great people backing it. We have mature people coming into work on it. I’ve gotten over 4,000 Facebook friends within the last couple of months. I mean, I don’t even know how this happened. I didn’t even put my name on Facebook, someone else did it. I got this under my own control. Now, I’m trying to answer each and every person. I think you can only have 5,000, so I’ll have to open up a new website. A young lady that’s 21 from Indiana University named Aubrey Jean set up Cosmic Treaty and Ban Space-Based Weapons to other Facebook pages that she’s answering. One of them has 700 people on it already. The other one has, I think she said close to 80. That’s without any publicity at all. The treaty is posted in that. It’s not in a very good format, because it’s Facebook.

Again, on, people can actually download the treaty and really study. Teachers can use it in the schools to teach with. I know of an elementary school teacher who wrote to me that said that she’s been using it to teach in the sixth grade. The kids are so excited about it. They want to travel. They want peace on the planet. They get that there are extraterrestrial beings. They don’t want weapons over their head. Even some of them who have been watching and are so brainwashed by the TV and movies that are coming out of the evil aliens, they get that it’s not true. The kids are not so dumbed down yet in the younger ages, unless they have parents that perhaps are supporting that idea or they’ve been watching too much TV.

Hillary Raimo:  Carol, I want to ask you about that, because honestly, it seems like we’re being feed these kind of images. It’s something that’s consistent across the board. Hollywood is coming out with new movies now all based on us verse them themes. You can ask any gamer who plays video games what is the alien in a video game? It’s the enemy. The goal is to kill it. They’re taught to shoot it down. There is a really strong grassroots effort to plant a seed in people’s minds that aliens are bad. What are your thoughts on this? Is this an agenda? Is this prophecy?

Dr. Carol Rosin:  There is such a sense of urgency in my being that I got chills while you were saying that. What I know is that the largest research and development program in recorded history is now aimed at weaponizing space. They are accelerating that program beyond belief. Years ago, I testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. I presented a document that was handed to me by a guy in a raincoat with sunglasses, if you can believe it, but said, “It came out of the Heritage Foundation.” It had HF on it. What it was was a plan for educating the public. In it it said, “We will steal the language of the arms-control community, regardless of the merits or non-merits of the system.” Part of that plan was to educate the media, to put out productions of movies, television, radio that would be enough to continue building the momentum towards continuing this weapons game. This war game. Now, it was going into space. That’s what I was testifying about.

It doesn’t surprise me at all, and Von Braun also mentioned to me back when he was telling me about two movies that he consulted about going to Mars and going to Venus. They were even using the Mars rover that he designed as science fiction but that became fact. Isaac Asimov and Buckminster Fuller were my two board members when I originated this institute back in the early ’80s. Both of them told me how science fiction can become fact. Von Braun used to say that the technology is just an extension of the mind. If that’s what we’re teaching our young people, and the young kids are actually being taken into rooms with rows of computers to supposedly teach them how to use computers. What are the games? Just what you described. Shoot them up, kill them down, space alien kind of games, monsters coming in. You see the movies with these horrible, ugly, craft and holographic images coming in now.

I’m really concerned about it. I think that fellas and ladies who are producing this stuff need psychological counseling, because they’re producing a fear factor and an ugly image that is going to get created as we all go down and the human species gets obliterated in that vision of the consequences of actually building such a system. It’s very disconcerting to me. There were parts of what you’re saying that actually paralyzed me in a way, because I think it’s just hopeless. We can’t do anything. Until I started reading this treaty, which I really hope everyone will do. We don’t have time to go over it line by line.

It will present another vision. That’s why I suggested just to see if it would work to this one teacher to try it out on her elementary school teachers. It’s working. I’ve now done it with several people. Let’s start having our children draw positive visions. It must be very difficult for them, because that’s not what they’re being feed. I think it’s time to involve the young people and have them present to us what they know. Let’s dig it out of them, because they’re losing the touch with their heart and spirit. It’s very difficult, I know, for children to come from a place of love unless they happen to have one of those unusual families that have stayed together and really love them or a single parent who really loves and cares for them. There are some of those. There are also many, many children that don’t come from that kind of environment. The cities around them, the communities are falling apart too. They’re feeling the stretch of negativity that their parents are going through. Kids are very sensitive beings.

We need to start paying attention to these children that “they are the future.” They’re not going to have any future if we don’t, as adults and people including children, students who can join in like in the Indiana University students have … They’re the only audience, by the way, of universities that I’ve addressed, because I have been in seclusion. They came through, these university students, and they got very up about what was possible in the world, because it’s not La La land, let’s all envision and everything is gonna be wonderful kind of talk. It’s going to be wonderful if you get out there and make the changes, work for it in any field of interest at all, especially get into fields of technology and science, and get to the leaders.

I pretty much given up, unfortunately, on the U.S. Congress. I only met one congressperson that connected to this for the right reasons. It was Joe Moakley and he died, from Boston. I said, “Why arem’t you going to introduce the first bill to ban space-based weapons?” He said, “Because I have starving, freezing seniors in the streets of Boston, and I know if the money goes into his enormous space-based weapons program, they’re going to continue and it’s going to get worse to suffer.” Now, those who are politically oriented in the states, maybe can take this in and try to get a bill made out of it. I personally give up. That’s why I’ve gone to the world level first.

I’m going along with what a man named Howard Kurtz who’s also deceased now, founder of World Control Planners Inc., and Gary Davis who founded his version of The World Government of World Citizens for which I’m coordinator of the space commission having replaced Dr. Isaac Asimov. I’ve got all these titles and positions. I’m using everything I’ve got including Dr. Charles [Merchia 00:37:31] just appointed me to be World Space Ambassador. I’m sorry, World Peace Ambassador for the International Association of Educators for World Peace, which is consultative status with the UN Economic and Social Council.

If all us can get into any kind of position or just write letters to the media, get on the radio like I’m doing on your show, start to write letters, we all know how to do this and hand write them, because I remember hearing that maybe gets to people’s hearts more. I don’t think petitions actually work, but I think personal contact really does. That’s my experience. I have helped to produce different amendments and bills and now this treaty. I believe that what Howard Kurtz and all of these other men I mentioned have told me is true, especially with the way the United States is headed. It’s very frustrating to those of us who have tried so hard to work for the good in the states.

I think what we need to do is work at the world level, get the world leaders to sign this treaty, the first nine makes it law. As I said it’s verifiable and enforceable by the nature of the cooperation and collaboration that we all are doing in space, sharing what we know and what we can do to pave … The military has a role to play to pave the way into space and to help us get there safely and help the ETs come in safely. The corporations will be to create more jobs and profits than during any hot or cold war time. This expands the industry. It doesn’t cut it down like swords to plowshares was sounding to the guys in the corporations. This is war to space but without space-based weapons. They are headed into space. We’re only removing the mandate to weaponize it. We can do that. This is doable.

The laboratories, universities are going to get educational programs and funding for the research and development out of expanding our mind, our consciousness into creating technologies and information services that can be applied to solving the urgent and potential problems on this planet, man-made or natural, of which we are going into deeply right now. It’s very scary. This nuclear one in Japan is just a bit of a hint to what’s going to happen. Millions of people. A million people they already know died from Chernobyl. I was downwind of 3 Mile Island.

It’s going to induce cancers. We already know things like what’s happening to the water, and we should know that just a millionth of a gram of plutonium or less can induce cancer and will induce cancer. Each of the reactors blowing up now has 250 kilos or 500 pounds of plutonium in it. I mean, we’re in deep trouble, and we need to shut down these plants and go for the alternative energy. Every house should be using solar, wind, and all the other alternatives that are coming out with zero point that we will also free up mines and budgets for when the ETs come in and show us what we’re capable of doing.

They’ve evolved. They’ve told me there’s no guarantee, because of the human ego. If we can evolve it and this treaty is tapping people into this higher frequency, as I mentioned, we can stop these devastating incidents from happening. We can do it by creating another whole reality that we want. If they put these space-based weapons up there, basically we’re screwed. We’re not going to be able to stop it. The momentum and the inertia will become impossible to stop like it did on earth. This is a place where we can put a lid on it, but allow the aerospace industries and the entire war game that’s so interconnected with every aspect of work and life on this planet other than with the organizations and people who are working to put Band-Aids on these various issues that so need them, we can transform that by just getting a ban on the base part of it that’s in space, the space-based weapons. This doesn’t stop weapons on earth from developing. It does stop space-based weapons, puts a lid on it.

These guys are not stupid they are smart in the complex. They’re going to look for what they can produce to keep their industries, labs, universities, the militaries, everybody going. We can do it without weapons in space to start. That’s what this treaty is all about. By the way the treaty, one more thing, acknowledges not only ban space-based weapons, which is the bottom line of it, but it acknowledge and it allows the cosmic cultures and the indigenous nations to be parties to the treaty. In other words to witness it. The first half of the treaty talks about that.

Then, of course, the nation state, the UN member nations are the signatories to any treaty. The leaders of the world know what to do. We just have to ask them to sign this treaty, make it ratified by their congress or parliament, whatever they have in that country, whether it’s a president or prime minister, they know how to do it. They send it. The processes is they send it to the UN Secretary-General’s office who is the treaty depositary. Again, the world leaders know how to do this. There are over 40,000 treaties in that office.

This one is the most unique one ever written, because it acknowledges the cosmic cultures. That’s where the solutions are. Again, not many people are going to be able to grasp this, because it’s a new concept and it’s so tongue-in-cheek on mainstream news. In fact, it’s a reality. For those of us who get it and can understand that, guess what? We’re still here, so they haven’t come to take us away off the planet or control us. There’s no agenda to do that. It’s proven by the fact that we’re still here.

Hillary Raimo:  Carol what do you say to the people who still haven’t grasped ET life forms exist?

Dr. Carol Rosin:  The first thing I do is send them to the Disclosure Project to look at these very credible witnesses and to the other ones. Leslie Cane did a National Press Club press conference with international experts. The military guys did, with Robert Salas, did a press conference in September. I think it was September 10, 2010 that actually proved that they’re still here, that the craft had come in. They have not done anything to threaten or harm us. That is the proof right there. If people are going for the scientific proof like they did in the old paradigm, which is caused us all the problems that we’re now seeing on the planet, this technological proof that anybody can prove most anything depending on who you hire to say what, the fact is it’s obvious that they are not hostile. They’re here. There’s no evidence of hostility. There are a lot of stories, maybe some of them are true, maybe they’re not from the past. In the last couple of years, it’s become very obvious that none of them are hostile.

Some of us who have credentials that have gone public with that statement who know, people will either believe us or they won’t. My other version is other than educating people with live witnesses who are alive today, and I know that there are others who are going to say, “Oh yes, but I’ve been plugged up. I’ve had these bad experiences.” Well, okay. Good. I’m moving on myself. I want to hear from the people who get it, who really intuitively know it, spiritually know it, intellectually know it, whatever it takes for them to know, who are working on various issues or care about their future, because they know that we have to come up with solutions, for people who can understand that there’s a whole lot to learn.

The problem is, that you’re addressing, I think, at least one part of it is that we’re taught to hate and fear. We don’t trust people that look different, that have a different religion. We think it’s okay to go in and murder a leader of some country, because maybe he’s doing bad things. We don’t communicate.

We don’t have enough respect, enough awareness, enough of our evolutionary process to even go on to find other ways of functioning on this planet with humans. How can we expect that trickle down or up that certain people are ever going to believe that we can get along with extraterrestrial beings. I mean, they can’t. They’re totally exposed to this other vision like the children are that we were talking about. Yeah, they can see that children are suffering. You see these horrible visions of families that have no food, no water, no sanitary protection for themselves. We go in and bomb them.

We go in and bomb places and send in our drones now. They keep advancing the technologies where part of the country is drowning or in the middle of a drought, and we just bombed the crap out of the other ones. It’s a continuation of the old mindset. I believe that some of these people, unfortunately, and I say this as a very sad educator, are not educable at this time. My husband who’s an actor says that even if we had a landing, the people would say, “Oh, that’s just Spielberg.” There are people that actually believe we didn’t go to the moon, because of that mistake on a video that these guys showed what they thought was better footage, but it showed shadows on the moons. Now people are convinced we didn’t go to the moon. Others just don’t believe it anyway.

There are going to be skeptics and nonbelievers. I actually understand it. I mean, I have a lot of compassion. I didn’t get into the aerospace defense industry because I was a real peace activist. I thought I was doing something good for the country working on these missile systems. That’s what you’re taught. Somewhere along the line, I started listening to the people that I was supposed to be studying and educating with the lies, and I said, “Oh my god. These people are actually making more sense than where I am.” Wernher Von Braun who had lived with and created weapons in wars and suffering was dedicating the last years of his life to try and to educate people. He was a religious guy with a Bible and all that. I’m not. He was. He would do anything that he could to try to present this positive vision of what could be in space. That’s what I inherited.

I think that his influence on me, I hope, will spread my influence on others as an educator and yours too, because you do such positive healing work. That’s what we should all be about now. I think that that’s going to attract the first group of people, maybe in different levels of understanding and belief systems until they catch up to the fact that we can truly live in peace and harmony on this planet. We can live in peace and harmony, as you said at the very beginning of the show, basically you were saying this, with the beings in space. They’re from many different universes and galaxies. We have an opportunity to even have that happen in our lifetime.

It’s not down the road in some other lifetime. It’s going to happen within the next year or two. I’d say, within the next few months we should be able to get this treaty signed with people like you coming in and saying, “Okay, let’s go get this done.” And with other people who are working on the other vitally important issues. This isn’t to take away from them, because we have a lot of Band-Aids to put on and a lot of environmental problems, a lot of health problems. It goes on every level of every being just like the belief systems that are so screwed up in people.

My bottom line to that is I’m looking to see who is attracted, who is tapped by this treaty and writes to or contacts you or goes through the website Those are the first people. That’s who I’m really more interested than hearing the negative news or the skeptics or the “You’re full of crap” scenarios or you’re an agent or a Nazi. I just don’t care if they call me names anymore. I don’t want to be hurt and hospitalized, like I was for doing this work. I don’t want to be robbed anymore, like I was for doing this work. I’ve said to anybody that wants to do that just bring it on, because everybody knows now what we’re about. We’re about peace and love.

Dare, I say the word love? That’s really what this is about. I love the children. I love animals. I love the beautiful environments that we can all be living in. There are too many people suffering on this planet. The suffering is being caused mostly by humans, not by ETs. None is being caused by ETs. That’s another point to bring up to people. What we have to do now is find a place that we can all agree on. I have not got one single negative remark in over 4,000 Facebook friends about this treaty. I have got nothing. I mean, it shocks me, Hillary, nothing but positive statements and emails, thousands and thousands of emails. I have four email addresses and I can’t keep track of them.

That’s why I think with your listeners, if they would contact you and me through you or, we can start to collect the people who do get it. I think that’s who we have to work with right now. I used to be much more all-inclusive. I’ve gotten to be a bit more discerning now, because I realized what you were mentioning so intelligently that there is a sense of urgency now. We really have to get this done fast or we’re in deep problems that we won’t be able to get out unless there’s some spectacular thing that happens that I don’t know about. I’ve been told that the ETs are going to leave if we set off a nuclear bomb or if we base weapons in space to shoot them down.

I believe that, because I have heard it from several other people who have had the same kind of contact I have. I’ve now gone public with that. I’m sure I’ll be discredited by certain people for even announcing that I am in contact, I’ve had a meeting for an hour and a half with another man in the room with some extraterrestrial beings that walk through a wall. That’s just the truth. I’m not a crazy … Well, I might be crazy by the time I’m finished doing this. I’m not a crazy person. I have my credentials, and so did the other people who have gone public about these incidents. What we have to do now is sort and discern and see who is attracted and who will come to us and say, “What can I do?” We have enough assignments for every one of the thousands of people who will make contact with us. I know they will, because it’s already started. That’s why we were waiting to see what people’s comments were.

We are working on a plan of action. Hillary, I want to do this with you too, of course. Thankfully, you’ve committed, right?

Hillary Raimo: Thank you Dr. Rosin, I hope I have helped by doing this show. For more information one can go to there you can read the treaty and/or download a PDF or Word format. You can contact Carol directly on

Thank you Dr. Carol Rosin so much for sharing your stories and information with me and my listeners, I look forward to hearing updates. To everybody listening, thank you for being here.


**Transcription of a live episode of The Hillary Raimo Show with Hillary Raimo & Dr. Carol Rosin recorded March 31st, 2011 hosted by Achieve Radio** All Rights Reserved 2011 and beyond. No part of this may be republished without permission contact



Questions inspired by the Anderson/Raimo Transcript by Hillary Raimo

These are some questions I have after my show with Dr. David Lewis Anderson of the Anderson Institute first recorded in 2012 (read the transcript). Here are some of my musings 5 years later. Meant to stimulate pondering and deep thinking.


Could we be so distracted as a culture that a completely different reality could be existing all around us that most are oblivious too?

Who are those 2% of people that are sensitive enough to perceive the altered time lines?

Does the original time technology alliance with the nations discussed by David represent the players in the war games we are watching play out on the collective stage now in 2017?

Has the technology been used to win wars already?

Is CERN part of this technology?

Can super quantum computers mimic time alterations and calculate them for gain?

Can this technology change someones destiny?

If the user of this technology wanted to cease the birth of someone, could the technology be used to go back in time and stop the parents from conceiving that person?

If looking out into space is looking back in time, could Mars be the Earth in some other place in time? Is that why it is such an interest of study now?

Who are these “interesting spiritual leaders watching my work”?

Feel free to dance around the answers and inspirations these stir in the comments below. I will engage and respond with those looking to intelligently discuss this.